Medicine 2023 Entry - Part 4

[opoponax]

Anyone out there with DC applying or reapplying for Medicine 2023, please join a friendly thread for mutual support and useful advice.

PS. As this a thread for those about to enter the bucket I am hopeful that the current fight will result in better provision by the time yours graduate.
That, or they'll join the rest of the UK educated medical workforce in Australia 😊

@mumsneedwine I think the Australian option is OK short term, but I have read that their training places are mainly reserved for domestic applicants, so if you want to progress to consultant level it is not such a good option. It is very difficult to see a future in which the NHS remains the universal service it currently is (or is meant to be). Labour are not supporting FPR either, and I have no time for Wes Streeting although I think Keir Starmer is rational.

@Monkey2001 they are now promising straight through speciality training as part of the contract in Aus. NZ are also adding in full residency from day 1. They are not stupid. It's cheaper to hire our graduates than train more of their own
It is so so sad the way doctors are being treated at the moment. So much disdain. DD got told she was just a rich kid do gooder. She had great pleasure in telling them she's worked since we 13, went to comprehensive school and has £80,000 of debt, so not sure how she's ever been rich. Wish we were. I'd retire as teaching is equally as poop these days.
God it's depressing. Off to get some sun in a pub garden with the dogs and doggie friends.

@mumsneedwine I know that making a difference to your students' lives doesn't pay the bills, but I hope it makes up for some of the crap. Years of austerity has made the gap between public and private sector wider than ever. The bottom is protected by the inflationary rise in minimum wage, but professional pay in public sector is woeful.

Cratos, your son may have already decided, but Sheffield students after 1st year don’t get the usual
student summer break. DD had 2 x 2 weeks spread out last summer , and will have 3 weeks this summer. She has to make her student loan last so much longer (topped up by bank of mum and dad) rent much cheaper though, she’s paying just over £100/week for a lovely house in a nice area of the city.

Going through the Central London prep school system during a financial crisis has given me a different take. We work in the public sector and paying fees meant a lot of prioritising. No cleaner, no exotic holidays, family hand-me-down cars, stick with a 3 bed house, au pair rather than nanny, no money spent on home decoration for two decades, and kids bundled off to grandparents or holiday schemes.

All felt a bit less bleak when other, more affluent parents in their 40s started sidling up to us asking about public sector career opportunities. If they lost their jobs in the shake out there was no guarantee they would find another. It is very likely within our DCs lifetime that shakeouts within the London financial sector will become more severe. There is currently huge restructuring going on within data/tech with firms like Facebook, Uber, Twitter and Google downsizing, and no similar jobs to apply for.

DD tells me that there is a lot of up or out, so friends who were happily boasting about how much they earned, are now back on the job market. IBs like Goldman Sachs will pay huge starting salaries but cull after a couple of years. Top law and accountancy firms also make it quite clear who they want to stay on after qualification, and those selected work very long hours.

In contrast doctors I know have had career variety and longevity. Work part time as a GP in a lovely, or cheaper part of the country, stick in a London teaching hospital and be at the top of your profession, invited to conferences all over the place, get to 60 and take advantage of "retire and return" to dial down on working hours. Plus those who really wanted to be doctors have job satisfaction as a bonus.

Money isn't everything, You can have as much fun on a well chosen cheap holiday as an expensive long haul trip etc. Doctors have the real advantage of being able to find jobs in any part of the country, and indeed overseas, so can set their priorities. Housing where DD has chosen to take her F1, is so cheap that she and her friend are thinking of renting a three bedroom house so friends can visit. It helps to see the benefits. My mother was a teacher, and moaned through the whole of my childhood. When she retired she really missed teaching (especially the bottom set kids who needed support and guidance) and discovered that she had actually loved it all along.

Just to say on holidays I believe they differ between Universities (somebody said St Andrews had the longest, but not sure). At Nottingham (just to chip in with what I know), the first two years they have long holidays (DS in first year is finishing his exams on 8th June, and then, assuming he passes, doesn't have to be back until nearly the end of September - if he doesn't pass there are resits in late August). I get the impression that is the same next year. But everybody is telling him to make the most of these holidays, as after that it is only a couple of weeks.

@LalaFlottes hello back! She may have had longer last year, you’re right. It stung for her going back in July when lots of friends were travelling/earning money. She has picked up odd jobs here and there, she has a nice gig dog sitting now which is helping!

@Bimkom no long holiday after the 2nd year one at Notts as they will be doing their BMedSci stuff in 3rd year summer. So get about 4 weeks if I remember correctly. Then straight into 4th year. It's how they get that extra degree.
Unless they've changed it 🤷‍♀️.

Ah, so maybe it is just this year. In any event, everybody has been telling him to make the most of this year's holiday - I thought it was a bit next year as well, but I could well be wrong, and it is straight into the BMedSci.

@Bimkom they then get a lovely first graduation in the autumn - Notts do a v good graduation day, as it's all free. Champagne, cakes, tickets and loads of marquees and fun picture spots. Instagram worthy. We are off to round 2 (the 'real' one) on 19th July. They have a grad ball on 20th, before all starting work on 25th. It will come round so fast !

Hope A levels going well for those that have started. June 6th will be D Day for lots. Keep calm and read the question. Madly been running a clinic today and school was baking so we decamped to under a large oak on the field. Nothing like a bit of organic synthesis in the sunshine 🌞

@ramonaquimby thank you very much for this info. I think I had a quick look at the timetables for the year but this didn't quite register in my mind. We prefer a long Summer holiday if possible since my parents live abroad and we like to go and stay with them for about a month in the Summer. I guess his Summer plans might be different now.

I can confirm that St Andrews students get 4 months in first, second and third year between the last exam and start of next term. Then at Manchester DS will get 7 weeks next year, then 4 weeks between final 2 years. Also 2 weeks at Christmas and a week for Easter. Not much sign of wanting to work in the holidays though!

Finishing dates in 5th year vary a lot too. Some done and dusted by Feb, some still going late June. Means they can get a nice chunk of time to go travelling before starting work in July.
And the end of the day they all learn the same stuff in the end, over probably the same number of weeks.

My DS finally firmed Bristol and insured Liverpool last week for deferred entry 2024 Sept. First A level exam tomorrow.

DS 2 is in Year 10 and might apply to Cambridge. I need to find a great forum like this one for Cambridge/ Oxford potential applicants now 😀
I am very very grateful for all the advice we received here 🙏🏼

congrats @Cratos. Must be nice to have it settled. And motivating for him at this point.

I imagine lots of our dcs will have their first A level tomorrow. All the best to all of them, no matter how far into their exams they are.

Yep, dd has her first one tomorrow. Fingers crossed for all of them that they will get re results that they need.

DD has firmed Barts with Manchester as her insurance. Just need to get the grades now!

Very best of luck to all!!

Ah @Cratos Cambridge is a whole extra level of stress. My advice is to go for it but try to help them understand that 75% of the people interviewed will not get offers and they are all really clever people, the best in their years. The application process is cruel because it draws you in and you fall in love with the place, then rejection is much more painful than it should be!

Cambridge wants to see passion for the subject, so as much genuine reading round the subject as they can do so that they can talk naturally about it. summer projects and EPQs can give them extra things to talk about - Cambridge don't directly give credit for an EPQ, but it can be a marker of passion. DS1 forgot the most basic stuff in his interview after getting a very high BMAT score because he cared too much. He has, however, been very happy at St Andrews, which feels like Cambridge-by-the-Sea.

Yes good luck to everyone. Dd now a third of the way through and while not all the papers were perfect, hopefully it has been enough.

@Monkey2001 I understand what you mean. I am not sure if I am ready for another set of challenges (-: We were not well prepared for Medical School applications. He started pretty late. Perhaps we can gather more information in advance for DS2 and take the right steps on time.
DS2 will choose between Economy or Computer Science I think. I just had a quick look at the requirements and for Economy he needs to do 4 subjects and various other challenges like submitting written work, a math exam and an interview. Oh my god ! Mental health issues need to be considered as well when you aim for such a competitive course. Even if he gets it, it may be too tough. I am not sure. It sounds like your DS enjoyed St Andrews but it is pretty far for us however this time it would be for 3 years only at least.

@Needmoresleep that is so true. You raised very interesting point here. Thank you. I should keep them in mind since we have been the same. Currently many families around us are building extensions, planning exotic holidays and buying expensive cars. We are already not doing these. Our priorities have been elsewhere. It will be challenging when kids are at Uni. However, it is a privilege to have a job that gives you personal satisfaction. Hopefully, this is what they will have one day.
On another note, I am also curious and also a bit anxious about how ChatGPT, AI etc will affect job market in the very near future. AI can already do many tasks better than humans. Yes not perfect and yes also risky & scary but it is coming fast. Not sure if the education system and employment sector will catch up on time to ensure people still have jobs and careers.

Oh dear @Cratos , those are the other 2 subjects which are super hard to get into at "top" universities. Lots of people with perfect GCSEs and 4 As predicted at A level did not get offers for Economics both this year and last year, and comp sci is also terrible. I assume both are because of the earning potential. A friend's DS with all 8/9 at GCSE and A predictions was rejected for Economics by Oxford (pre interview) and Durham and Leeds. Luckily got offers from Warwick and Exeter. There are people on The Student Room who applied to LSE, UCL, Oxbridge and got no offers. It is really difficult to understand the reality that just being very clever is not enough, and so hard to strike the balance between being supportive and preparing them for an answer they don't want.

How about Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse? MUCH nicer competition ratio there!

Lost my A*s there to bolding, but you know what I meant!