Oxbridge 2024 Entry

[Lightsabre]

Thought I'd start a thread for parents of dc considering Oxbridge applications for entry in Oct 2024 (I don't think there's a current one)? Past threads have been so informative and supportive and hopefully this thread will offer that too. Please feel free to add to the thread if your dc have recently had experience of the process, good, bad or ugly!

Jeez I refer you to my earlier comment about things not being black and white and having nuanced opinions. It is not about you being wrong or right or PPE being good or bad. Things are not that straightforward and clearcut. May I suggest you could benefit from a few PPE philosophy tutorials. Perhaps your academic husband could arrange 😀

To change the subject from the PPE argument and on to supporting our kids can I ask some questions about delaying putting down all 5 options.

I would like my DS to do this partly because I sense he's at the stage of putting down 4 London universities more out of fear of not getting a first choice offer if he isn't successful with Oxford than anything else.

His school doesn't seem to have given him any advice on delaying putting down other options. I know this may have been mentioned earlier in the thread or on other threads but given that we are quite late considering Oxbridge I've not paid too much notice to it.

What is the position here, can the delay be right up to the normal UCAS deadline date to see if any other offers have come? I think there is an admin fee? Is there a risk that no responses will have come in before the UCAS deadline or is it a given that the Oxbridge result will be known by then?

@lifeturnsonadime my DD is planning on doing this as at the moment she has only 1-2 others that she is definite about. My understanding is that Oxford is first half of January but Cambridge not til 24th so I guess just enough time. My concern though is that options 2&3 for DD are quite likely to not offer til after the UCAS deadline anyway so we may not be any the wiser. But at least it will give DD a bit more time to make some decisions.

I don't think there is an admin fee beyond the initial one, you can just add them on as you wish (but you can't remove any)

Hertsessex maybe let the argument die now

@lifeturnsonadime DD’s school has vetoed delayed applications. Possibly because of the reasons mentioned above about forgetting to return to it. They are still adamant that some uni’s like Nottingham (I note that one poster has said that this is not the case for Nottingham ) outright reject early applications as they know it is a likely Oxbridge application. The school has experience of this being the case. She is mindful that her school will be seen as elitist so needs to make careful choices. DD has ruled out London uni’s as she’s been in a London school and knows it would be a waste of money living in a below average house share 40mins out when she could live at home in an arguably safer area for free and be closer. She wants to move out. That’s also fine and natural. It is a shame that so many excellent London unis are not in a position to offer 3 year accommodation but we are where we are I guess.

School is adamant that the choices must be made by students not parents and that ps’s must be their own work. They are checked for sanity and mistakes and commented only if improvements are required/on the wrong track etc.

School is also of the opinion that spending too much time on UCAS applications or being distracted by the process is by far the greatest threat to achieving predicted grades. They have been warned not to neglect their studies, all quite sensible I think.

the only issue is the number of applications from her school and the fact that they discourage multiple applications to the same colleges for the same/similar course. They are expected to negotiate amongst themselves which is a bit 🤔

@Hertsessex thanks for the insight into London accommodation problems. We are off to Imperial Open Day this weekend and secretly hoping that DS doesn't like it as much as he thinks he will. Can't help but think that long commutes and very little cash left for going out rather takes the shine off the university experience.
He also forgot to book onto the subject talks which are now full (annoyed is an understatement). Was going to cancel as it's 550 miles round trip but train tickets are non-refundable so we'll just have to make the most of it.
Anyone know what Imperial accommodation options are like - looks like only first year is guaranteed and still v expensive unless you share a room (not going to happen!)

@10ppicnmix i am a bit confused. The school won’t allow delayed applications but then argue that some universities will automatically reject early applicants who have obviously applied to oxbridge? Or have I misunderstood?

Thanks @10ppicnmix and @Velryba23 very helpful.

I have just spoken to DS about it, he seems to have parked the applications for now and is busy revising for tests that he has this week. He completed the PS over the summer. He is adamant that he is going to do all applications at once and that he is going for all London with the exception of Oxford.

The only saving grace for him might be that he will be deemed a disabled student which might I think give him concessions and when it comes to student accommodation if he is made an offer but possibly only for the university that is his first choice. This is something to compare universities on if he is made offers.

I guess I'll just let him get on with it and see what happens. He knows it will cost more as do we, but honestly we never thought he'd be in a position to apply for uni at all as recently as 2 years ago so anything is a bonus.

@ladsmum we're also revisiting Imperial this weekend specifically to look at accommodation and to visit the dept Ds has now decided on. They were doing tours of the South Kensington halls last year and dh looked as ds was booked onto a talk. Dh didn't provide a lot of info other than they were £££ but obviously an amazing location. I think the bulk of the accommodation is in Ealing.
Ds is keen on Imperial but will have to accept that he'll need to live at home for years 2 and 3 which will make for a different university experience.

@10ppicnmix some interesting points there. I’ve heard the opposite re early applications; some unis actually regard an early applicant as likely to be applying to Oxbridge and therefore a positive? DDs school is pushing hard for all (not just Oxbridge applicants) to have UCAS done by half term, precisely so that it does not remain a distraction from their coursework thereafter.

DD has picked 4 out of 5 unis and courses, and just today decided on the college to apply to. If she doesn’t get into Oxford, she would be happy with any of the other 3 (and for us, the open days have been really helpful in this regard) so I am fairly relaxed now about the fifth.

She’s currently sat working on her PS. I do wonder for the STEM subjects just how much weight they carry in the process at any of the universities. When we went to the open day at Warwick, the lecturer for her course suggested they paid no attention to them at all. At the more general admissions talk, we were told they only really look at them for the most competitive courses (for Warwick, things like Economics and, dare I mention it, PPE). For the rest all they really required for entry was that students were doing the right subjects and made the required grades in their A levels.

@10ppicnmix

So nobody from your DD's school ever applies to both Oxbridge and Nottingham, even if Nottingham is their favourite non-Oxbridge university? And they are expected to negotiate with each other over who gets to apply to certain courses and who has to give way when someone else wants the same course? That all sounds very odd and not at all in the best interests of the individual DCs.

I know the thing about unis vetoing early applicants comes up every year but I find it really hard to believe. Thousands of people every year apply to Oxbridge without even getting offers, let alone achieving them. Why would any uni deliberately try to avoid these high quality applicants, most of whom will end up at one of their other choices? Especially one like Nottingham which will be the insurance choice of hundreds of other non-Oxbridge applicants.

@Velryba23 yes. Exactly this. I think at some point you have to trust the school to have your DC’s best interests at heart. They are also very clear that getting a place at Oxbridge is very far from likely even with the grades etc. they place DD’s current subject group chances of 1 in 4 being the very best outcome.

No matter how invested/not invested we are as parents, the fact is DD’s school has more information/guidance/experience that I can offer given that I’m not in an Oxbridge admissions dept…..

@lifeturnsonadime you must be very proud. Congratulations to your lad.

@singingstones as I’ve said upthread, I’ve no interest in arguing about whether or not Nottingham does or does not reject early applicants. There will always be one exception to be found. For the course DD is interested in, the schools advice based upon their access to their own data is not to apply there.

And yes, the Pupils are expected, and largely do sort it out amongst themselves so that everyone has the best chance of success. There will always be someone at the top of the year for the subject, with the best grades. Everyone in that class knows who that is. From my understanding, Oxford asks for the reference to include where the student sits in the year group. There is little point in engaging in blue-on-blue fire by being bloody minded that you are going to apply for CC Oxford Economics/whatever when someone sitting higher in the year group intends to do the same and when everyone can spread out and increase the chances of success for the subject group. I hardly see That as odd, just practical advice.

@ladsmum I'd go to the subject talks anyway as someone may not turn up or they may let him stand at the back? That was our plan at Bristol last weekend (due to traffic we got there too late anyway). Or possibly if a parent had booked in they might bump them out in favor of an actual applicant.

I’ve no interest in arguing about whether or not Nottingham does or does not reject early applicants. There will always be one exception to be found.

I'm inclined to think that whatever course your DD is interested in may be the exception re Nottingham! (They certainly had no issue for my DDs subject and were the lowest offer of her 5.)

@singingstones if I understood @10ppicnmix correctly, what the school avoids is two pupils applying for the same course at the same college and hence in direct competition, rather than limiting the numbers who apply for any given subject. So it constrains only the college choice. DDs school does the same, though in her case the numbers applying per subject are small enough that it very seldom means anyone has to change their college choice.

Agreed @ErrolTheDragon and I don’t know if it is specific to Oxford rather than Cambs. I think it would be useful if the thread could return to a sharing of views/knowledge/advice without everyone descending to a ‘this cannot possibly be the case’ level. Every school has different data, a different knowledge base and a different student cohort. It would be madness to ignore the school’s knowledge of both the process and the student IMO. What my DD’s school advises for their students may well not apply to anyone else’s. I’m also open to understanding the experience and knowledge of other parents on here too. Nobody has all of the answers!

@InvestedButNotOverinvested exactly this.

@10ppicnmix
Ah I see - the negotiating is about Oxbridge colleges, not courses, I realise now you said that and I didn't spot it.

I have just noticed that you said some unis, so not just Nottingham - as a matter of interest, which others are not advised for Oxbridge applicants from your DD's school? Maybe we can collect some data from this thread if anyone is applying to those unis, might be useful for any lurking Y12s

DD doesn't have Nottingham on her radar as her brother is there, but she does have Durham which is another that either loves or hates an early application, depending on who you talk to.

I am not having a go but do think it's strange that they say choices must be the DCs', and then tell them where and when to apply. DD is going to three open days after the Oxbridge deadline and really needs to see these cities and find out about the courses before she can decide whether to apply. She needs to have four options that she's happy with - Oxford, an insurance in case Oxford offer (so lower than AAA), an alternative first choice (likely higher than AAA) and an insurance for the alternative (maybe AAA). Actually, preferably five good options in case some of these reject her 😱

It was much easier with DS, I must say.

@singingstones i’m not sure. I only know for her, Notts is advised as not suitable. I’ll ask her tomorrow. She’s also been advised to definitely apply to Birmingham as it is vastly underrated for her course and not a popular choice from her school.

Choices are the DC’s but teenagers can be massive twats as we know 😂 DD actually considered dropping one Uni as ‘there wasn’t decent enough shopping choices nearby’ 🙄 I think it is more like ‘friendly guidance’ but they also need to ensure that Oxbridge apps are realistic and not the choices of mum and dad….

I don’t know if it is specific to Oxford rather than Cambs

universities don't know where else an applicant has applied to - they may deduce Oxford or Cambridge from a (non clinical) early application but won't know which.

@ErrolTheDragon fair point!

@10ppicnmix

Sorry if I have annoyed you! I am flummoxed by the 'universities that don't want Oxbridge applicants' thing every year, I just can't understand it, these are some of the highest achieving young people in the country! Maybe an admissions person will pop up and tell us what their uni's approach is.

I see what you're saying re the expertise of the schools but have also heard some horror stories of UCAS coordinators giving duff out of date advice, and schools that in general have other things higher up their list of priorities than what's best for the DC. So no harm in keeping an eye I think.

@singingstones not annoyed!

DD’s school sends a large number to Oxbridge ever year. I think there is a good balance between realism and ambition. I understand your point about duff information but the school record does seem to bear out its process thus far.

Obviously not the current year, but DD's offers were: Warwick the day after UCAS went in, York 2 or 3 days later, Durham early November, Oxford offer day in January, Edinburgh said no in February.

In some cases as early application is an advantage as universities have to give equal consideration to all applications. They are quite safe in making early offers, but the closer you get to the January deadline, the more likely you are to have to wait 2-3 months or worse. You can see threads describing the agonising wait from UCL, Imperial, LSE, Durham, St Andrews & Edinburgh on here each year. Sometimes they make them wait for a rejection until April or May.