DH is limiting Y12 DC to universities in the north due to ££££

[BatteredHonda]

DC is in Y12 and wants to apply to KCL, Bristol and Exeter - alongside other unis. DC will qualify for minimum maintenance loan and we are therefore expected to top up/pay the accommodation. We struggle to make ends meet as it is so DH has said DC canNOT apply to southern unis - let alone London ones. He is recommending Leicester, Newcastle, Swansea, Belfast etc instead. DC is furious but I do get where DH coming from. What are your thoughts?

Rowing scholarship? I know Bristol have ones for coxes

Also IC throw money at you. I know someone who was offered £4K to go. He chose us though :-)

And finally get him to apply to maudlin college Oxford. They have money to burn and offer scholarships for fees only at a higher family income threshold than other colleges and universities. Don’t ask me to tell you how I know this. Two very reliable sources. With his rowing and grades he might get a chance

If he wants to join one of the services then yes, cadets is a good idea and doesn't have to be through school. DS (who is in the army) is part of the team running a local sea cadets. Neither is affiliated to a particular school. There is also an army cadets close by. As regards which Uni, if he's very sporty then I would look at Loughborough. It's known for sports.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

Makes no odds if you agree with it or not, some parents take that line. What you mean is you know people who don’t take that approach.

Some schools’ workload is such that it’s tricky to work in the term time if students are also doing 1 or 2 instruments, sports and other extra-curricular activities.

History with war studies at KCL is his top choice. Not many unis offer it though - although DH has discovered Wolverhampton do and is raving about cheap accommodation there

Great to hear it's his top choice, it's a fantastic course. Straight History courses at other unis are not really a substitute for it. Wolverhampton not comparable in terms of reputation - though there are some very good people there. Lincoln is not a good alternative either, nice city though it is. In years of working with colleagues from other unis, going to national and international conferences, I've never met one from Lincoln uni. That's not a good sign.

PM me if your DS has any questions about the WS&H course.

If this is his attitude your DH is quite right.

I do wonder how it gets to to this point - why aren't people up front with older children and teens about money and how the world works? It isn't doing them any favours to shelter them to the extent that they're utterly divorced from reality and set up for disappointment.

To be honest, 'Not London' is a lot more reasonable than 'Not South' - London is a million miles away from other Southern towns and cities in terms of accommodation costs. My sister went to university in London 20 years ago and the best they could afford in the second year was a house share off the Old Kent Road with a squat and a brothel on the same street and mould growing on the windowsills. She has some very spicy stories about some scrapes they got into. (I know this can happen anywhere but at least it's cheaper). London is a great city, I've lived here my whole adult life, but unless you have money you can't really enjoy it. The only real option if it had to be London would be a gap year with a full time job first.

Four years time is plenty of time for him to change his mind. Or what if he doesn't get into the armed forces or police?

Going to Wolverhampton to study a subject like history would be crazy.

If it has to be north, what about York?

I am fairly sure the time that would otherwise be spent in a part time job will not all be spent on extra study.

In OP's DS's example, it's spent on sport.

Has he considered Camp America as a summer job where he could coach sports or do life-guarding? Things may have changed but I did that twenty years ago and managed to save up a lot of money over the course of the summer because all expenses were covered and there was nowhere to spend wages. Tips from parents were great too. I spent some of my earnings on travelling after I'd finished working, but still came home with a decent amount to help tide me over my last year of uni without getting a part-time job.

Completely agree.

Affluence isn't a factor here.

Mine don't work many hours during term time and during exam pressure points may take weeks off, but during the summer they love the independence of making money.

We are very focused on their education and sent them to schools that reflect this.

Part of the value of a part time job is the limit it puts on excessive drinking IMO.

Those that are endlessly funded spend a lot of time levelling pints and cocktails, we have found by having the commitment of a part time job at the weekend that this has never really been an issue.

My boys are often out at night socialising but will drive as they have work in the morning and don't want to face it with a hangover.

It's a win win here.

It would be nice if DS could go wherever he wanted and money was no object but unfortunately things don't work like that in real life and your DS is old enough to start to understand that. Adults make decisions/compromises based on costs all the time. The main problem seems to be that your DH is suggesting universities that aren't comparable in terms of prestige etc. that your DS is looking at.
Your DS should look at stats both on how the university ranks overall but for his course in particular, and at employment outcomes. There are plenty of highly regarded universities a little further north. Nottingham, Nottingham Trent for some courses, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle etc.

Who are you fairly sure about? Aren’t kids different?

@billy1966

I disagree - affluence can be an issue - I’ve seen it for myself - if kids have the latest tech, designer gear, and meals and nights out funded by their parents - there’s less impetus to get a job to pay for it. You say that yourself that kids who are “endlessly funded” spend time and money drinking etc, that’s true.

Equally some parents and indeed some schools dissuade kids from paid work during term time in favour of study and extra curricular activities including music and sport. If Saturday is spent on sport, music, drama etc - the rest of the weekend is needed to complete homework.

Summer holiday jobs are a different kettle of fish.

Sit him down and explain the facts. He's not allowed to be furious over family finances unless and until he financially contributes.

Back your dh 💯 here.

Definitely my experience too. Dd is yr 12 at an academic state grammar 6th form and she and most of her peers work.
We are in a nice area, parents have professional jobs. Parents encourage pt work as it’s seen as good for developing skills. They go out of their way to facilitate it eg picking up after late shifts.
Mine works 1 or 2 short shifts a week at McDonald’s. It shows good time management and has done my dc world of good dealing with stroppy customers, making friends outside her circle.
Maybe because it’s a high achieving sixth the students can manage to juggle it all - they all have hobbies too.
If they are needing to study for hours over the recommended time to get grades then I’m sure parents would say job is first thing to go. But these are A/A star students.

Sorry, I don't think I made my meaning clear.

Of course, I'm not disputing that some parents will discourage part time work because they think it will have a negative impact on academics. My point was that I think those parents are generally wrong, and that the ones who do actively encourage part time work don't necessarily value academic work any less highly.

The kids who have PT jobs often do lots of extracurricular stuff as well, and being busy certainly doesn't stop them from getting their A* grades. Learning to juggle multiple responsibilities and to manage their time effectively is actually a very useful skill to develop.

Of course, there will be some kids who are genuinely lacking in the organisational skills that are needed to be able to manage both, and no amount of practice will be enough to help them get there. And there will also be the kids who struggle academically and have to work much harder than everyone else to get the same grades. Individual parents will obviously know their own children and will make different decisions based on how much they can handle, but it's simply not the case that those who care more about education will discourage part time work.

Yes, I agree that it's much easier for the high achievers to juggle without any detriment to their studies. I accept that I might feel differently about the importance of part time work if dd was struggling with her school work.

I meant affluence in OUR house, not being a factor here.

I am also writing about university.

We wouldn't have encouraged part time jobs during secondary school term at all as they were too busy with sports, piano and school work.

However, they both secured well paid summer jobs due to them both being accomplished tennis players and we encouraged them to take them during their teen years.

Coaching tennis offers great opportunities in the US, as does sailing, during university summers.

In university we have also encouraged a part time job.

Obviously there are different levels of wealth which does affect this completely.

For us, despite being very fortunate, we think a part time job is to be encouraged and has value.

There is something about dealing with the public that matures you!

This is such a wild generalisation as to be meaningless. It really depends on the circumstance. If a child is at say Westminster or St Paul’s and they play 2 instruments to a high level and play in sports teams or study at the Royal College on a Saturday, there really isn’t time in the term for paid work and the schools will discourage it. Doesn’t mean the parents don’t value paid work - indeed that’s how they’re paying the fees!

But an academic child not involved in sport or music, who doesn’t have a wild social life will have much more time on a weekend to do paid work.

Many children choose to get a job to pay for things they want that their parents can’t afford or are not inclined to spend money on.

So - different strokes for different folks.

In that case we’re on the same page. It’s not uncommon for kids to have workloads that preclude term time jobs. Affluence can be a factor.

University is different in that, unless you’re at Oxbridge with short terms and intensive workload, there’s plenty of time for paid work during uni terms.

To me, it seems that it’s about short term vs long term.

Long term, you want him to have the best degree from the best institution possible, so that he has a wide range of possible career avenues with competitive salaries. (Yes, I know he has an avenue in mind now BUT it is really short-sighted to suggest he compromises quality of degree niw because he ‘only’ needs x to enter that area - ideas change)

Short term, the best institutions potentially cost more in rent and living expenses.

So you need to steer a compromise path - through a year off doing paid work; through p/t paid work starting now; through going for eg second choice not the first. The idea you DH has, that the compromise should ALL be on quality of course, may short term be attractive, but long term is potentially disastrous.

If a child is spending so much time on study that they have literally no time for anything else, then I'm not sure that's desirable either.

No wonder there are lots of very entitled 20 somethings in the workplace who find working full time 'a bit much' and then need to go travelling for 5 months (often using their parents as bank of mum and dad) as they've worked 'so hard' for 2 years. I had friends who played for teams and also often played an instrument to a good level but they all had jobs too and didn't have parents enabling them not to work. Must be nice to be in a position where someone says 'don't worry darling, I know you've got lots of fun things going on' - I don't think you are doing them any favours though- it becomes all about them and unless they are going to be a professional sportsperson or in an orchestra, is just enabling a bit of an unreal life. The only way I would help a young and fit person out to not do any paid work was if their further qualifications meant they had to work as part of that - medicine, nursing, teaching etc . We have had young graduates at the workplace and whilst a few are great, lots have zero work ethic-especially in the last 10 years and many of these are from very comfortably off backgrounds too .