Oxbridge Rejects 2023 - Come this way and commiserate

[Rejects]

As mentioned on the other thread a safe space for those who'd like a bit of support while not dampening others' moods Sorry that I have gone on a lot about this rejection already on here - it's helped me keep outwardly calm and cheerful when my ds has been very upset.

I am acutely aware in the scheme of things a university rejection is not a huge deal and that amazing lives and outcomes no doubt await all our dc wherever they go, it's just getting through the time between now and A levels and/or offers from other unis arriving, keeping dcs' morale up. Good luck everyone

Yes because all private school students who manage to get the grades for Edinburgh are just Tim nice but dims!

How prejudiced is your statement?
Why would they be dim if they can get the A grades needed for Edinburgh?

Really tired of these kind of anti-private school pupil statements with massive harmful stereotyping.

@ACJane not saying that all privately educated students are dim. Many are outstanding. However if you have committed to reducing the proportion of privately educated students as Edinburgh have then it makes sense to target those with higher grades rather than those who scraped ABB from likes of Eton and Harrow.

What evidence do you have that Eton snd Harrow boys got ABB and scraped in anyway? You don’t have a clue which schools privately educated DC went to! Continued class war is so ill informed and boring. If the offer is ABB, it’s that to all non Scottish people.

The differences in salaries is almost certainly down to where people end up working. I rather suspect Scottish students tend to stay in Scotland and are not coming south for London salaries. Durham students are more likely to as many come from the SE.

Very interesting discussion. It's worth bearing in mind that private school pupils in Edinburgh represent 25% of total pupils, rather than 7% nationwide. Ds is privately educated, naturally clever, but also has worked extremely hard and is driven to succeed. He's predicted 4 A stars at A Level, so the Edinburgh offer is lower than his predicted grades, but is the highest they offer for that course, which may be perfectly fair as he has had good parental support and great schooling so far. It is very hard to expect students to put the cost of fees and tuition in to perspective in the long run when choosing between Scotland and England. £40K tuition is an awful lot to someone that age (and me!).

@Aurea It sounds like he is going to choose Durham!

@FriendlyLaundryMonster ds is Scottish and may well choose an English uni as first choice and potentially a Scottish one as second choice so deciding fees are worth the financial hit .

I'm using discoveruni.gov.uk as my source and Imperial's is at £64k so Durham would not be joint top

and btw, Edinburgh CS is actually known to be a very strong department. It's easily top 10 in the country for it so I wouldn't dismiss it (definitely not 33rd in prospects for CS specifically!)

It’s always worth remembering that the often quoted 7% figure isn’t actually applicable to 6th form – there the proportion of pupils privately educated goes right up to 17%. So Edinburgh isn’t actually that far off and Oxford and Cambridge have more or less hit their targets. I would also guess, though, as someone else said, that people with more money are more likely to choose to travel to Scotland for the University experience, just as Scottish students would absolutely understandably want to stay home. sadly all the data shows that more and more students are choosing to stay near home owing to COL

The 2023 QS world rankings show Imperial computer science at 15th and Edinburgh Informatics at 20th. So, there is no disputing they are both worthy! When you look at overall uni rankings (not course specific), Imperial is 6= and Edinburgh 15th. Imperial is pretty much always one of the top ten universities in the world.
I think discoveruni has quite a small sample size, but when I've looked at other sources, Imperial grads in computer science do seem to win on salaries too.

This would only come into play in a large organisation hiring a dozen each year from both Imperial and Edinburgh, where there may be a slight bias in the first few months until they get to know each person. After that, it is all down to individual achievement in my view. I cannot imagine a situation where a kid with worse interpersonal/test performance would win just because he went to Imperial. Definitely not in Computer Science

I really wouldn't worry about marginal positions in rankings. More & more graduate roles are university blind, with the computer saying yes or no at the early stages. There only seem to be one or two professions these days which give a flying fig about which university candidates attended. Everyone else focuses on skills and behaviours throughout the recruitment process.

They do. However the top universities still get more into the top paying roles. They just ace the tests better!

It's not that one person will be chosen over the other just because of their uni but the point is that Imperial is targeted more heavily and that gets your foot in the door more easily.

Thank you for all your thought-provoking replies.

Which universities do people think are targeted by employers most heavily for comp sci? Are unis located in Scotland disadvantaged a propos careers fairs, for example?

They do, and then they get to interview stage where they tell the interviewer their uni course and often grade.

I think there probably is a big factor with travelling. I would assume London based jobs are better paid and that students at unis closer to London are literally better placed to go for interviews etc. Most graduate jobs are competitive and potential employees will likely go to many interviews before getting a job. When it's your 10th plus interview and you're up in Scotland I wouldn't be surprised if you start looking at potentially lesser paid jobs in Scotland vs (yet) another London trip.

Obviously, London salaries reflect the cost of living in London – an Edinburgh compsci graduate may well stay in Scotland. They will still be earning £££ nothing to worry about there. If they want to travel to London for interviews, they can – they also be saving a fortune during the undergraduate years in fees and in living costs. Personally I’ll be really put off going to a London University right now unless I had roots in London but it IS personal

Does the milk round still exist where the larger firms visit universities and do first round of interviews there ?

Oxford, Cambridge, imperial are the top three
But Edinburgh is also very solid. UCL and Warwick.

The most competitive firms are very selective and will mostly target the top 3 the most. These include quant trading firms, i.e. the likes of Jane Street etc. The money you can get at these firms is a hell of a lot more than most other firms, and you could easily make up for the differential in a few years. Caveat being that there is obviously no ease in getting in.

FAANG firms (still pay very well) will be less prescriptive for unis, and will visit both unis though. Still, employers from both quant and top tech firms sponsor Imperial's Computing society very heavily, and this means that students can have more access to sponsor events in addition to the usual careers fairs that are company wide. Another thought to be had.

Imperial Computing soc sponsors:

https://docsoc.co.uk/sponsors/

Edinburgh's Computing soc sponsors:

https://comp-soc.com/partners

Also should the student wish to look for Silicon Valley/US jobs, Imperial's name will carry more cachet. This won't be important to many kids.

With all that said, past entry level, your uni name matters less and the portfolio is more important (minus the quant firms still). Also, Edinburgh has grim weather that would put me off (half-joking). Anyway, for maximising job prospects I would say Imperial. Edinburgh is still very respectable, but even with London (which has extortionate living costs), I'd take the opportunity to be in an exciting metropolis and potential to live as a student at discounted prices close-ish to campus in some of the nicest neighbourhoods in London...

As someone else already mentioned, yes, at initial screening, it might be blind but interviewers still have to see your CV...which does have your uni name...

Of course it’s a matter of personal taste, finances and so on - Edinburgh isn’t exactly a sleepy backwater though. Both would be great choices and both have excellent employment outcomes

I have posted this on the other thread but thought in hindsight it would be better here. Sorry to duplicate:

Looking at all the negative impact rejection has had on these kids - and all the futile hard work that has gone into applying (and well done those who got an offer) - both of which will affect emotional well-being, experience of Y13 and possibly grades - would any of you recommend doing it this way…..

Apply to your 2/3rd choices in Y13.

ONLY if you get AAA* (?) then decide to take a gap year on results day and apply then to O/C ?

Would that avoid the anguish in Y13 and also put you in a better position with grades in hand and effectively year older / mature / academically / socially better to handle the interview vs the Y13s applying in that year?

CompSci recruitment by the top employers is done on a global level. Teams are multinational and a student based in London or Edinburgh could be interviewed online by team leaders based in Zurich and Santa Clara and would be in direct competition with students from Stanford, MIT, ETH, etc.

International rankings are far more important than national rankings:
https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2023/computer-science-information-systems?&page=0