Help - DS is studying 2 MFL A-levels but warned off!

[Towinthewater]

On half term hols in USA and my Y12 DS is panicking about email from (newly appointed) SLT member at his school earlier today.

DS is studying French, Spanish and Film Studies at A level. He intends to apply to RG unis for Modern Languages via UCAS in Sept. Predicted ABB.

New member of SLT has sent an email to top set Y11 (the year below DS - but his friend shared it with him) advising that pupils shld think twice about French or Spanish at A-level as all the A stars go to native speakers (who take the A level as an easy option).

is this new member of SLT correct? Advice for my ambitious DS who loves MFL but might not have taken them if he’d known he has little chance of getting A star thanks to native speakers! I emphasise that two of his three A-levels are MFL (both French and Spanish) so he is doubly f**ked

My DS took French A level last year. Every student in the (admittedly small) class got an A*. Comprehensive school, none of the class were native speakers.

There are more A-stars awarded for languages than any other subject - if it was insisted that the proportion should be the same, then possibly there would be a problem, but I presume the threshold is set at an appropriate level for non-native speakers to be able to achieve top grades.

DD and her friend gave the native speaker in their GCSE class a run for her money - she was better on the speaking and listening, but they were better on the grammar. DD is on course for an A-star, although it being her fourth subject may mean she settles for an A.

Unfortunately the slt are mostly correct. Out of DD's year, the only students who got a or a* were native speakers with at least a grandparent who lived in that country except one, family friend, whose parents paid for an hour a week tutoring for both years plus a month long immersion course in france between year 12&13.

@lanthanum
Is this because native speakers swamp the MFL courses and only the brightest think they can compete? The numbers taking German, for example, has fallen off a cliff. Most dc think they cannot compete if they don’t have what @gogohmm describes. MFL university departments are closing and it’s easier to get a place at a top class university to do MFL - less competition and often lower grades required than other degrees. I tend to think anyone doing 2 MFLs is pretty bright if they have done them from scratch at 11, with no family help and have persevered. So many give up.

That's interesting @TizerorFizz . What A-Levels did your DD choose so she was able to practise Law?

Absolutely ridiculous and inaccurate comment from SLT. If he wants to do an MFL degree of course he should do languages for A-level. Presumably they are the subject he is most interested in/best at.

What other students get is entirely irrelevant. Each student should choose the subjects they are best at /like so they are willing to put in the effort.

I did two MFL A-levels and a double language MFL degree. Not sure there was a single native speaker on any of my courses. Mostly they just use their native speaker status to add value added to their CV once they have a different degree. If you are a native speaker you don't really need an A-level to prove you can speak the language!

@chocorabbit
She did 2 x MFL, History and Politics. (3 is better now!) Then joint MFL degree. Then the conversion course, then barrister training course. Then pupilage. It’s a long haul and I think it’s changed now regarding conversion to law.

There were plenty of people on her degree who were half French etc.Or had lived there. Or stayed with grandparents there etc. Ditto with her other MFL. We are a far more cosmopolitan country these days and it was reported widely that the 7th largest French city was London!

Sadly dh and me were poor at MFL, didn’t have relatives/friends to help, didn’t even know dd might even be good at MFL until a teacher told us when she was 12 towards the end of y8. I am grateful that she was able to do 2 MFL at school. She had zero at state primary school.

@adulthumanfemalemum
You know who is a native speaker, they don’t turn up to language learning as much as everyone else. DD saw people lining up at graduation she didn’t know existed.

@TizerorFizz your suggestion as to reduction in numbers doing MFL resonates with what I’ve heard.

Students tend not to progress to A Level MFL unless they’ve 7, 8 or 9 at GCSE. As A Level grade spread is linked to cohort’s performance at GCSE then inevitably more Grade A star and Grade As awarded at A Level - sadly it seems a self selecting group these days. And pretty girl heavy. DC2’s Uni year is 72% female for French.

@Juja
I agree with what you say. It’s also perceived as a hard A level. When you can do all your others in English (where hopefully you know the grammar) MFLs don’t seem attractive. Also Dc are frequently only offered one MFL so learning is restricted. Such a waste of talent.

That’s nonsense! I did French and German A-levels, didn’t struggle and got As (this was before A* was introduced and I’m not sure where the boundaries were but my German UMS was very high)

If a student has an aptitude for languages there is no reason at all not to study two. It would be a great help for his university aspirations.

I’m not sure Film is a particularly great third subject for RG universities though if I’m being brutally honest.

@Phos
Many RG universities are bums on seats or MFL. They are reducing their departments. It’s a shrinking subject. Well done you with As. Lots of students are not naturally gifted but have to work hard. I don’t you know if you realise it, but many schools don’t offer Dc more than one MFL. Doing 2 means you are at a good school which can pay for MFL teachers.

Aaah! Bums on seats for MFL! They like an essay subject for no 3. Film is that. Eng lit is better or History but film fits the bill ok.

I think outside of ML degrees, universities understand that it is often harder to get top grades in languages and that a dwindling number of students are studying MLS. There are lots of degrees where if you combine then with a language you can get a lower offer than if you do a single honours without the language. An example is Management at Bath. Entry requirements are AAA. If you apply for Modern Languages and Management then the grades are AAB.

Management at Bath. Entry requirements are AAA. If you apply for Modern Languages and Management then the grades are AAB.

Or AAA offer for English at Manchester reduced to ABB for English plus MFL. That was without any MFL A-level, so an ab initio language for the degree, which is quite a leap of faith on both sides.

Well OP's kid's school clearly does so I don't know what your issue it.

And if a student doesn't have a natural aptitude for a subject perhaps they would choose another. I never said anything about gifted. Nor was I replying to you as it happens.

*is

Ahh I think you might be on to something there! 🙄

@Phos
i didn’t think you were replying to me. You were just boasting about how easy it was for you to get As at A level and how very high your UMS was. Well done you.

I mean on the plus side, a native French speaker is not going to apply for a french degree are they?

@Phos “I’m not sure Film is a particularly great third subject for RG universities though if I’m being brutally honest”

I have really valued replies to my post. Thank you all. But must beg to differ with the above - DS has known he wanted to do MFL at uni since Y11. Before choosing his A-levels, he contacted the language schools at Bristol and one other RG (can’t remember which) to ask whether Film Studies A-level would be acceptable alongside French and Spanish. Both unis were very enthusiastic and explained that there were numerous uni modules that explored Spanish/French films so previous experience of Film Studies (albeit in English) would be very worthwhile.

@Btjdkfnn if only that were true. My DH’s great friend grew up in Paris (his English dad worked in our embassy there). This friend read French at Durham even though completely bilingual coz it was an easy option for him so he could - and did! - party hard. He got a First.

I'm not an expert on this but I know my son's experience. He's in year 13 and one of his A levels is French. In his small class there was one native French speaker, and he dropped out after 2 terms because it was too hard. It seemed that his fluency only took him so far. Yes he had all the vocab, but the complicated grammar and literature analysis was just as hard for him as for the others. In the same way that English language and literature A levels aren't necessarily easy for native English speakers.

@TizerorFizz ”I tend to think anyone doing 2 MFLs is pretty bright if they have done them from scratch at 11, with no family help and have persevered. So many give up.“

agree Tizer. My DS had about an hour a week French at state primary. Did French GCSE at secondary school. Taught himself Spanish GCSE on his own via revision guides and Duolingo - no school or tutor. Got 2 x grade 9 at GCSE. He just loves languages. Now fortunate enough to be in a (state) 6th form where he can do both French and Spanish at A-level. We are not linguists and have no idea where he gets it from!

He has been told that MFL at uni are 2/3 female, 1/3 male but he doesn’t mind that coz he loves meeting girls

I did French, Spanish and English Lit A levels, they all complimented each other. I teach MFL now.

All credit to him for doing Spanish on his own. He's clearly a naturally talented and enthusiastic linguist, we need more of them!

I hope he continues his passion at Uni and has a great Year Abroad.
They are offering big financial incentives to train to teach MFL by the way, £25k tax free.