How do we find out about studying in Europe?

[igivein]

DS is in year 12 and hoping to study physics / Astro physics at uni (assuming he gets his finger out and gets decent grades …).
He’s starting to realise the insane amount of debt he’s likely to graduate with.
We were chatting this morning about how you can study undergrad courses abroad that are taught in English but the fees are much lower. Does anyone have any experience / knowledge of this, or can point me in the right direction to explore further?
I appreciate it’s probably not as easy now - thanks brexit!

Yes, in France it's very common for a lot of students to drop out of / fail the first year.

@Moominmammacat
Yes. Students had to attend MFL lessons and pass in order to access the 3rd year abroad taught in the MFL. It’s very hard but doable with a decent gcse in the language. Says a lot about a student if they manage a MEng course and go abroad to be taught in French at a Grande Ecole.

Echoing what others have said, but Universities in Switzerland and Germany tend to accept huge numbers of students (they simply need to pass their Abitur) but then about 40-50% drop out after the first year exams.

In the UK the selection pricy is much more rigorous so that the accepted students are much more likely to complete their degree.

Process (not pricy)

So they may teach in English in the Nederlands, but everyday life is conducted in Dutch.

In our experience the 'English' taught students are often disadvantaged when it comes to prioritising students ( eg less exam prep etc)

If you want to study in the UK, Germany or France, it's advisable to be fluent in English, German or French!!

Lots of info and useful links on this website:

education.ec.europa.eu/study-in-europe

Absolutely on all your points @Purplemagnolias

I really do think it’s a false economy to look at university outside the UK simply to avoid tuition fees.

Of course, there may be other good reasons to look at mainland Europe universities.

My DD is currently studying for one year at UvA (Amsterdam) - the last Erasmus cohort. She is having a whale of a time, and spending less this year on tuition than if she were at home at her Scottish uni (RUK fees) - she pays an £1800 retainer their - but I think UvA's regular fees would be much higher than in UK (£14k p.a. I think when I was trying to check it all last year). Most of her friends are overseas UG students though so plenty do it.

She was lucky and got accommodation through the UvA lottery but she knows a lot of people who have struggled, been in AirBnB etc. Her actual rent is lower than she paid in first two year - £400pcm all bills inc - and though some costs are higher, and she spends on transport as living about 20min tram ride from uni (cycles too when it's not raining hard 😂). It felt like a lot of upfront costs to get her in there though (300 euro for the lottery etc) buy ERASMUS pays them back well so she is doing ok.

She still gets her maintenance loan this year (in fact she seems to get slightly more, we are certainly topping up with less), and tuition fees for the Scottish uni. It did cost her more to get home for Christmas, and we did do a ferry trip to take her stuff to her at the beginning of the year (as well as her flying out before) - but that was cos we like travelling and worked with a trip to help other dd's language practice - and we'll do the same at the end, but might be worth considering.

Year abroad - amazing! Not sure it would be so good for the whole degree from a finance pov.

Yes, a year abroad is a wonderful thing to do within a UK degree

In the UK the selection pricy is much more rigorous so that the accepted students are much more likely to complete their degree.

It is more the case that universities can't afford to lost £9,250 a year.

I think he’s likely to face international fees as a non EU student. These are much higher.

Many uk universities have drop out rates of more than 10%. The less selective tend to have more drop out. It’s not much to do with fees as all fees are the same.

My DD is currently doing her masters at a dutch university. It's hard to integrate with the Dutch kids even if you speak the language but she has made a fabulous group of european friends far more quickly than she made friends in the UK as an undergrad. The course is very intense with lots of lectures and seminars, coursework and two sets of exams already - far better than in the UK although the quality of the lectures is about the same as at her RG uni (ie not amazing). She's in a big city so it's like in London - you have to book student accomm very early and it's expensive. Travel is also an issue but ok with a good bike. I would recommend going to visit and see if your son likes the feel of the dutch universities- we loved Maastricht and liked Leiden too. Overall I would say it's a great opportunity but don't be surprised if he decides to stay in Europe to work afterwards as the opportunities are so much greater there than in the UK atm.

My DD applied and was offered a place at Trinity College Dublin last year. In the end she accepted a place in England.

The process was v straightforward - she applied though the Irish CAO (UCAS equivalent) - earlier I think in February. Then they tell you whether you've got a place after the Irish Leaving cert results are released but it makes it all v close to the start date - ie you know 3 weeks before you start which didn't;t worry DD as she was deferring a year. You can look up the points required for each course for the last few years and there is a conversion table for A Levels, AS and EPQs. It is quite hard to score as highly with A Levels compared with leaving cert.

Living costs in Dublin are quite high but are balanced by much lower fees but what with travel costs etc it is probably six and two threes. There are cheaper university cities.

I wouldn't make the choice as a money saving exercise - they'd want to really live overseas.

Uk employers don’t necessarily rate Dutch qualifications though. A young person I know took a year to get a job (not a grad job) after his Masters. Just too many people wanting to work in his field and, in his case, no work experience. Studying abroad isn’t a passport to anything.

Studying in Germany is more do-able if you're in Scotland, because the offer is based on Highers, not Advanced Highers. So you need to have a Higher in a modern language, plus maths, in addition to the subject you want to study. That's much easier to do with Highers than with A'levels. Then you need to get yourself to B1 level in German (lower intermediate) and you can then access a German language course at a university, pass the test at the end of it and then stay on to do a degree. Both the German language course and the degree are very cheap. You can get to B1 level by studying online, for instance. So it's a good idea to start making plans early.

My experience is the opposite. Employers in the UK tend to be very keen on UK students who have international experience and have studied abroad.

Multinational organisations tend to use university ranking criteria when rating universities and universities in NL generally perform well:

www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2022/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/locations/NLD+GBR/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

Employers in the UK tend to be very keen on UK students who have international experience and have studied abroad.

Is that a single Year Abroad/Erasmus study, or the whole degree though?

Is that a single Year Abroad/Erasmus study, or the whole degree though?

Any experience abroad, whether an internship, work experience or a semester abroad is great. If you speak several languages, that's also very helpful.

A young person I know took a year to get a job (not a grad job) after his Masters. Just too many people wanting to work in his field and, in his case, no work experience. Studying abroad isn’t a passport to anything.

I agree 100%

For the most competitive jobs you'll be competing against graduates from the best Universities worldwide, most of which speak several languages.

Some firms in Europe only take graduates with a masters degrees. In the UK it's very important to have the right to residency so that's not always easy for students from abroad. Re Holland, I forgot to mention that TU Delft is really good for engineering, so it may also be good for physics and would be worth considering. Many Dutch degrees are automatically 4 years masters courses.

We are world leaders in engineering degrees. I don’t see the advantage of going anywhere else. Maybe a French Grand Ecole? Huge numbers of engineering degrees are MEng here. You also have to consider if degrees are recognised here by the Engineering Council. Some are but not necessarily all.

No, we're not.

While Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial are highly rated, many of the UK universities aren't rated particularly well in the discipline.

www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2022/engineering-technology

Sorry but we are! Our qualifications are recognised world wide. The university degrees here are passports to world wide careers hence foreign students are strongly represented on them. Not only that but CEng here is also recognised the world over. We have a great track record of engineering degrees and no student needs to go anywhere else to study engineering. Unless they want to.

The elite universities you mention are not representative of engineering. Cambridge and Oxford do General Engineering with relatively few students. No employer of engineering grads looks at their grads as being special. Many go into finance and other jobs so few engineering employers even see them. It’s a shame people do not understand this. They are world leading universities but engineering at both is limited. Far better are Sheffield, Bristol, Manchester, Southampton, Leeds and lots of others. Imperial Is stem of course and different. Just quoting rankings is not understanding our fine degrees and qualifications that are respected the world over. In fact many foreign nationals get their CEng here after studying here. For good reason.

Hear, hear, @TizerorFizz ! UK Engineering stands up to international scrutiny. The popularity of various courses for overseas students attests to this.

As do many Engineering degrees from many other countries, of course!

We live in a global world, and need to start to recognise this. But we also need to balance this recognition with the fact that in many areas, there are local/national specifics. So a degree in one country may not satisfy requirements for entering that profession in another country.

It's best to check.