Medicine - 2024 Entry

[LaMereDuChat]

Just thought I'd start a thread for anyone else who feels like me... Dd has just announced that she'd really like to apply for medicine. It seems pretty much impossible to get into and I'm dreading the process as the odds are stacked against her - private schooled, grades a bit iffy as she's chosen a language as an A-Level and it's hard, though she loves it. Anyone want to join the pity party 😬?

Cardiff not a good choice unless Welsh if not perfect GCSEs. UEA uses SJT as a component of your interview score so he will lose some marks there but it wouldn't affect him getting to interview stage. He is very close to cut off on Southampton so could be a risky choice. For Aston GCSEs are double the weighting of UCAT and he should score full marks here as they score six GCSEs and 8/9 count as the same. He would only lose GCSE marks if any of his 7s were English, Maths or Science subjects. Aston doesn't score SJT either. Liverpool seems fine but be aware of historical low offer to interview ratio.

@Roundandround23 i am not an expert but on the tsr threads everyone says that Cardiff is too risky if you are not Welsh. Apparently their process is very opaque, but they seem to favour Welsh applicants that have contextual factors and perfect GCSEs….

@Roundandround23 thought so but just wanted to check!
So UEA cut off was 2710 and they use UCAT & SJT as 50% of interview score

How is your DC doing @mums mine is F1 now in the AMU at St George’s south London

@trader21c she's having a lovely day on strike at the beach. Doing good, but working stupid hours. But enjoying life as an F1.

Lots of great advice and UCAT scores nice and stable, which should bode well for cut offs. There will be 1 or 2 that are unexpected (either way).

True ridiculous hours aren’t they rather her than me! Glad your DC thriving

Just saw the UCAT cut offs - DS 8th Decile. Handed his UCAS to school last Friday so the wait starts. 😬

Hi, my DD is a third year medic at Cardiff. I am confused by all the negativity towards Cardiff on this thread regarding places only being avaiable to Welsh students. DD is Welsh, but the majority of her medic friends are not, so there must be plenty of offers going to non Welsh applicants? There used to be clear guidance on the website of what they wanted in a personal statement (no idea if they still use this criteria) and we know several Welsh people who weren't interviewed because they hadn't followed this guidance. Maybe this has caught non-Welsh applicants out too?

DD is loving her life at Cardiff. The city is accessible, compact and reasonably inexpensive when it comes to renting student houses. The course is well organised: she has knows where all her placements until the end of year 5 since the middle of her second year. They also repay travel expenses/provide accommodation if they're travelling far for placements.

Don't discount it as an option, especially as it's not hugely reliant on UCAT score. However, do dig around for further guidance on PS on the website before applying.

Not sure whether anyone saw this announcement yesterday:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/expansion-of-medical-school-places-to-be-accelerated-to-next-year
https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj.p2286
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/steve-barclay-nhs-conservative-british-medical-association-england-b2422728.html

Not sure how this is progressing, as Brunel's web site doesn't say it's accepting home student applications for 2024. Chester and Three Counties are graduate-entry, so won't interest most people here.

The announcement says "subject to consultation". As the application deadline for 2024 entry is less than 2 weeks away, it's difficult to guess what form the consultation will take.

@Card1gan they changed the rules 2 years ago to give preference to Welsh students. It's to try and get more doctors to stay in Wales after Uni.

And the 'more medical school places' is so unbelievably stupid as there are not enough foundation places for the current amount. And the shortage of specialist training opportunities is insane. The leaky bucket getting more water poured in does not fix the massive hole at the bottom.

@Cardigan I think you may be referring to me saying that Cardiff is not a good choice for RUK applications with anything less than perfect GCSEs. The basis for this is that the Cardiff website states "Up to 3 additional points are awarded to GCSE scores for those from contextualised and Welsh-domiciled backgrounds" which is considerable out of a total score of 27.

there are not enough foundation places for the current amount is this true? I recently met the Dean of a private medical school in Malaysia and he said that good students did not have problems finding an F1 placement in the UK...unless they wanted to be in London.

As far as I know all graduates this year got placements, even though some knew their deanery but had to wait to hear details of their hospital.

There are vacancies where DD is and over 10% are from overseas. A few cancelled at the last minute. Perhaps they graduated but have since decided that medicine is not for them.

I think it's the lack of specialist training places that will be even more of a bottle neck as a result of increasing med student numbers without training routes above. DS quoted to me a 1 in 8 figure (maybe exaggerated but not completely wrong) of aspiring speciality doctors to training places available. Without more of these training jobs created we will lose even more young bright doctors to countries that do offer the posts (Australia, Canada, NZ etc)

@Card1gan the criteria for Cardiff are very opaque, so for RUK applicants it’s now like a lottery and so not worth the risk.

Scottish universities are similar now - see these figures for Aberdeen - less than 10% available to non Scottish applicants - why would anyone risk it!
https://www.abdn.ac.uk/smmsn/undergraduate/medicine/admissions-data.php

@Needmoresleep last year 800 students did not get a foundation offer in the first round. They had to wait for drop outs and some v panicked last minute decisions. So this year they scrapped the wait list, gave everyone a Deanery, but made them wait to find out exactly where they were going. And even longer to be given their route. Next year there are more students but no more foundation places. Following years even more students, but no more foundation places.

Training logjams are awful. Figures out today show 1:4 chance of getting into a training programme for most specialities. So 3 who apply don't. Although a few are 1 in 34.

All the government have to do is increase training places. More will stay as training would be better and less stressful.

@Notcontent they've made it slightly less opaque this year.

@Card1gan it’s a shame about Cardiff, my DD would have loved to apply there for all the reasons you state but given that less than 8% of English applicants got a place vs 27% of Welsh applicants (in 2023) it’s just too risky when there’s other options available.

If anyone is interested.

medical.hee.nhs.uk/medical-training-recruitment/medical-specialty-training/competition-ratios/2023-competition-ratios

On 8th October last year Cardiff's website was still stating that their selection procedure was under review. It made 2023 RUK applications far too risky.

@opoponax yup. They finally published the criteria for last year at the end of October. Really not fair (although we'd guessed the Welsh but was coming)

Yes DD was aware of some people with a deanery, but no immediate hospital, though the people DD knew did get somewhere by the start of summer, and indeed, as a result of drop outs, by the time they started there seemed to be vacant slots.

There is some serious competition for training in some specialities, but that is down the road.

How is crazy competition for speciality training down the road? Is it not a reality now? Is it not going to be made much worse by pouring more F1s into the funnel? Maybe I haven't understood properly.

@opoponax nope. You've understood it perfectly. I think @Needmoresleep meant further down the line for our kids. Although if they want to go straight to speciality training I think they apply this time next year (but I may be wrong).
It's going to get much worse by pouring in more students. People need to wise up, write to their MPs and get the government to budge and increase places.

I had been replying to a point on F1s, where everyone does seem to get a place eventually. Indeed at the small hospital DD is in they seem to have an unfilled F1 post, and two from overseas.

Mumsneedwine then mentioned speciality training, which is a whole different kettle of fish. Some specialities have always been very competitive. I don't know about all of them. What I meant was that this is not something 2024 applicants need to worry about. There are an awful lot of hurdles to clear before then.

But @Needmoresleep it sounds like if they become successful, 2024 will have to worry about the increasing competition for speciality training, as it will be more competitive by the time they come to it. Likewise, the number of places on the foundation year are not problematic for your daughter who entered F1 this year, but as @mumsneedwine has shown, it will be a problem in time for the medical students coming up after your daughter.

This thread is about applicants for 2024. Your daughter has the privilege of applying and and training during a less competitive time.