DS just asked me if it matters which university you go to

[Fadedpicture]

And I couldn't really formulate an answer.

I know Oxbridge and RG are more highly thought of, but from an employer's POV, how much difference does it make where you studied?

Is it different according to which subject you're doing or which sector you hope to work in?

the important other thing is that "the best university" for a particular course isn't necessarily the best option for any given student. different courses may have different balances between theory vs practical, which topics are emphasised, how assessment is split between project work vs exams and whether there are regular exams at the end of each module or one massive set of exams at the end. your ds needs to read up on these details and work out what course is best for him

A teacher at a very prominent public school told me it's not the uni...its the course. They need to go to the uni that has the best course for whatever they're doing.

I'm assuming the choice is not about a just maths or English type course.

It looks like your son is on a really interesting foundation course. He's probably best to speak to his tutor for advice. They will know how many, if any, students typically don't make the grade to go to the 1st year of the BSc. If your son does not get a high enough grade, would he even be advised to pursue a pure maths degree? Might he be advised to take a different pathway - a course with some maths content ( still at Bristol)?

Best of luck to him. I hope his plan B is not needed.

Other courses might want different qualifications though. I would, at the moment, assume Bristol is best but perhaps ask what other courses he might be eligible for. However, as an example, I do not see how engineering could work as that requires physics. I assume that’s not part of the access course. There is, of course, another university in Bristol.

A teacher at a very prominent public school told me it's not the uni...its the course. They need to go to the uni that has the best course for whatever they're doing.

This is an interesting one. I was fortunate in mine overlapping, so it was a good course at one of the more competitive unis.

But, I'd say it's the opposite if your degree is unrelated to your career (as mine was). Employers don't know which course is better for every subject and, from the professional services roles I've done, have largely picked by the uni.

Obviously different if you're going into something related such as science, engineering etc when I'm sure they know the strength of Imperial, Loughborough or wherever.

@red4321
Smaller engineering consultancies rarely see anyone from Imperial. Many employers have their own tests and find engineering grads are good from many universities. What matters is problem solving and understanding basic principles. Some university students from former polytechnics are just as good as the A* students from top tier universities in the real world. I also think maths grads from lower than top tier universities are very employable too.

Sorry, I know next to nothing about engineering, I used Imperial as an example as it seemed to be rated highly by parents in my son's year.

I'll qualify my views as based on professional services, and specifically accountancy and investment banking as that's where my experience lies. There was a very narrow range of unis represented amongst my corporate finance colleagues.

I'll qualify my views as based on professional services, and specifically accountancy and investment banking as that's where my experience lies. There was a very narrow range of unis represented amongst my corporate finance colleagues.

It seems like a lot of mumsnetters only have experience in accountancy, investment banking and law, so it is good to hear other views. DH has an engineering background and DD is planning a healthcare role, so it is refreshing to see other universities other than Oxbridgr, Imperial, Bristol etc getting a look in.

Oxbridge

That said, I guess it may also be partly self-fulfilling - if you filter applicants by grades, you may well end up with a small group of universities represented.

Neither is the investment banking application process representative of most jobs in fairness.

Courses vary a lot!

For traditional arts subjects traditional universities are the best, history at Cambridge for instance can't be beaten but when it comes to science, engineering and applied subjects it's a lot harder to get an answer as there's many variations, the the "best" institutions don't always have the "best" courses. DD's degree (a specialist engineering course) was considered the best in the U.K., arguably the world and it wasn't oxbridge or London! Everyone on her course is now in graduate employment or further study.

One part of the civil service went institution blind and recruited more, not fewer, of those from Oxbridge as those people were objectively the best and did best on the specific tests for the jobs which is not surprising as they tend to be the ones with the higher grades etc.

@Xenia
Down the years, DH has often found the “etc” vital. Pure brains isn’t necessarily the whole package an employer wants when it’s a practical solution based job where costs and delivery times matter.

You don't see this in IT at all. I think I've come across people from virtually every higher education place in the UK over the years, including in senior management roles (and some with no degree although they are obviously aging out now).

I'm involved at interview stage for the graduate recruitment where I work (US silicon valley tech company, top of the quadrant at the moment, desirable place to work, lot of buzz etc) - so they've already been screened by internal talent acquisition. They need a degree 2:1 or above but they come from a surprisingly wide range of unis. Lots of RG but also many other universities including the ex polys. Nottingham Uni and Southampton Uni come up a lot for some reason. No Oxbridge in the 5 years I've been doing it though so I guess they are all in Law and Banking or MI5. Although everyone I know who went to Cambridge recently (kids of friends, science grads) has stayed in research and doing PhDs, either at Cambdige or London unis. Money not the motivation with these guys (luckily).

I think in the Real World there are more than just 3 professions, unlike on MN where everyone needs to be a lawyer, banker, doctor 😂

I think in the Real World there are more than just 3 professions, unlike on MN where everyone needs to be a lawyer, banker, doctor 😂

I hear you (even though I'm in one of those categories!).

Worse still, pretty much all of our close uni friends work in professional services so my kids seem not to realise there's a whole world of different opportunities out there and money isn't everything either.

My older son thinks he wants to go into management consultancy (where my husband started off) and I can't help but think he's going to find the recruitment process brutal (and probably unsuccessful).

This

I am involved in the recruitment of graduates for a large city firm and we have blind recruitment and do not know which universities the graduates have attended. We have our own assessment centre and if the students do well they are in.

We teach the graduates who are offered a job everything they need to know to succeed.

You might be able to do that in some areas of work but you cannot with engineering, medicine, vets and other vocational degrees. They do need to hit the ground with some knowledge and momentum.

I don’t actuality think we need so many doing PhDs when they are mostly for their own sake. The great expansion of universities has made further study attractive for some. I’m not sure these people are in the real world. I certainly don’t put every PhD student in this category but how many are really needed is a moot point.

I did a science degree. I work in IT now at a senior level. Absolutely everything I know about computers, including programming, I learnt post my undergraduate degree. I don't see why that isn't the case for all professions really, apart from the ones like medicine, vet science, architecture etc that take a long time to do. And every single medic on this thread has said that they're the ones where it doesn't matter which medical school you go to. Even Law, lots of people do the conversion courses after studying something completely unrelated at undergraduate level. I don't know much about Engineering so maybe that's the one job where you need to have studied it at undergraduate level, from day 1, and at one of a handful of universities only. Are you an engineer Tiger? Can you explain why that is?

@SmartWatch you can start learning engineering at apprenticeship level and then progress on to a degree in it.

Some of the engineers I went out with in the past took that route. They mainly studied at former polys.

Others I'm related to, friends with and house shared with did A levels then a degree in an engineering discipline. The vast majority of those only spent from 0-8 years working in engineering before doing something else. They mainly studied at Cambridge and red bricks.

In my town, nearly all the state school sixth forms offer A level German (but afaik none of the colleges do). Something like Classics or Latin might be a bigger clue that it was private, but then I know at least 1 local comp offers Latin. Yes certain subjects may hint towards a certain type of school, but I don't think it's clear cut enough for recruiters to draw any conclusions.

There just happen to be quite a few lawyers on MN I suppose so I keep bringing things back to what I know as a lawyer with 4 lawyer children. I agree there are lots of jobs available and some of those are professions like law and medicine, but others are completely different things. If people look at this list for law firms you will see a lot of different universities on the list of from which universities some law firms recruit. It is only about 16% Oxbridge, then about the same again for together Durham, Bristol and Exeter. (and this is 2019 data so may have changed). www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities-2019

( I did German A level (and German and French at O level) back in the day in a tiny NE private school where most people did not go to university and even then only 3 of us in lower sixth and 2 in upper sixth did it (the 3rd just did it to the lower sixth level which I tihnk was called an AO level - we did one of those for history in lower sixth and then A level in upper sixth, bit like AS in its day after that). My 3 older children started Latin, French and German and picked one for GCSE. My younger at their school had Latin, French and Spanish (no German) and they picked French for GCSE.)

@Xenia thanks for posting that excellent link. It is well worth a read through. Scrolling through they include some time series analysis which gives a broader picture again. I only scanned through so may have missed it but a breakdown by law vs other degree subject for those unis and broad destinations shown would be interesting to see.

Yes, and it would be good if they updated it too. I think analysis by particular law firms at least for a few law firms would also be of interest. I did do [famous law firm name] trainee solicitor/linkedin search last year but forgotten the results. I think the gist was for that top firm everyone was exceptional and surprisingly international with people who were top of the top in their home country and perhaps educated internationally in various places but including some UK contextual people too and normal (ie exceptional results) UK Oxbridge but all had in common even the person from the ex poly from the difficult original circumstances was very good exam results -the ex poly girl had a first for example.

There are any number of professions which have nothing at all to do with law, banking, accountancy or engineering. My friends and family work variously in research, marketing, retail, journalism, architecture, teaching, health, and food science. These can all offer varied, well-paid careers, including working abroad if that is of interest.

Also, the long-term relevance of A level results is massively over-stated on MN. It's a useful tool to having your pick of universities, but beyond that? In those professions mentioned above no one really cares about A levels once you have a degree. Even less if you have higher degrees. Those with Masters and PhDs don't even bother including their A level results on their CVs – to my knowledge this has never been an issue for any of them.