DS just asked me if it matters which university you go to

[Fadedpicture]

And I couldn't really formulate an answer.

I know Oxbridge and RG are more highly thought of, but from an employer's POV, how much difference does it make where you studied?

Is it different according to which subject you're doing or which sector you hope to work in?

Medicine at ARU: https://aru.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/medicine

Tory wankers aside, unfortunately for elite firms in certain professions - Law, Investment Banking, Management Consultancy, for example, Oher is correct. Accountancy (Big 4/Top 6) will look outside of the Russell Group if your grades are high enough and your university is considered good enough) If want to join some of the other elite firms in other professions, even some of the Russell group will not be prestigious enough. In addition to the standing of your university you are likely to need a minimum of AAA or 40/41 IB points, and ideally a 1st and other commendations such as Deans list that make you stand out. There are universities for example Lancaster, Loughborough, Bath which dependent on the course will open doors but if you choose a highly selective profession to follow, your best bet is to choose one of the target universities for that profession and understand your A Levels will still count.

I would argue that getting a good degree from one of the less prestigious universities can still open doors for many professions, you just need to be cognisant of some of the limitations.

St George’s has been around since 1752 and really specialises in health.

and is near the bottom of league tables. It used to (about a decade ago) have a poor reputation for its medicine course and was the only medicine degree which was regularly in clearing. Possibly due to it being nearly solely PBL, not sure if that’s changed or not but prospective applicants used to avoid it because of the PBL reputation.

How many students are actually aiming for careers in law/banking/finance/big city firms though? There are always a lot of lawyers on threads like this who trot advice about RG universities every time this question is asked on MN. There seems to be few people from other professions on threads like this.

What is the issue with PBL? Other medical schools use this method as well, or used to when DD was considering medicine.

Those students with Bs abd C's will struggle to get some highly competitive jobs should they wish to leave following the completion of their exams and training contract. Its not impossible to get into another "elite or highly competitive' firm but it is much harder to get your foot through door even with an ACA or ICAS qualification. Getting a first class degree will help, as will first time passes and being a regional or global prizewinner.

@RampantIvy
It is difficult to say who is aiming for what. MN Dc seem to be high achievers, in the main. Hence ongoing multiple threads on Oxbridge and medicine and even Oxbridge rejects. Of course they don’t all want competitive jobs, but many seem to want competitive courses and lots seem to value LSE, Imperial and USA universities. Therefore these threads do not replicate society. Many posts reflect the academically elite of society and are often dominated by academics or teachers. The art thread has been a refreshing change. This one is about doing maths after an access course which is also interesting as most dc will have FM A star on these threads!

I agree with you @TizerorFizz about MN DC. I'm on another university forum which tends to display a more realistic snapshot of student DC.

Am I right in thinking that as employers will see the A level results of potential employees they might just assume what kind of university the student went to anyway? For example DD's course required AAA - AAB at her university but lower ranking universities ask for lower grades, so the emplyer would probably get a feel for the type of university the job seeker went to anyway.

Yes you're right there. There's an extra tier, let's call it 4b, "perfectly good vocational degrees from less traditional institutions". I have a post-graduate vocational qualification from one of them, following a first degree from type 1.

Then 5 is Traditional academic degrees/teen-friendly new style courses purely introduced as money-spinners, at lower ranked institutions with no special expertise and low grade requirements. Some of my mates from other courses were doing these and they were a bit shit.

And they cost the same as getting the degree from a top 20 university. So they are not great value for money. A vocational degree is very different and if Dc have lower grades, I would try and go vocational if at all possible. English is one of the worst degrees to do for employment for example.

English is one of the worst degrees to do for employment for example.

Would you say that this is often the degree of choice by students who want to go to university, but don't know what they want to do? And would you include geography and history in this category?

If he wants to do Maths and wants to maximise his choices it matters. It doesnt have to be Oxbridge /RG but it does have to be well regarded or have a good track record for employability for that subject.

IMO, there are lots of other things that you need to consider alongside the prestige of the university.

• Some courses like STEP papers. How do they view the foundation course?
• Some course take a low % of domestic students. That has an Impact on the Uni experience for some.
• How competitive is he in an academic setting? Top of your class pre university may equate to middle of the road or lower in an internationally or domestically elite university setting. Nothing wrong with this but not everyone adjusts well to it.
• What does he think he would like to do post degree? Academia? Finance? Become an Actuary? Data science? Etc

Not an exhaustive list but important considerations.

Quite a lot of lawyers do English lit, history and geography at university first so I am not sure those 3 subjects are always bad choices really if you go somewhere good to university and have high A level grades.

Sorry @Xenia, what I meant was are those subjects a great idea to do at universities languishing at the bottom of all league tables? Do they scream "I don't know what I want to do, I just want to go to university"?

It depends on the subject. If you want to do e.g. medicine, any medical school will do, as there are already too few doctors. University will also hardly matter if you want to start up your own company. If you want to get a good job, universities that offer a year in industry are a good starting point. I really don't like Oxford and Cambridge for that reason. I wen't to both, and found them really lacking in career advice/creating connections with employers. They don't do work experience/year in industry at all. They participate in the milkround, an employers fair, so that's helpful, but my choice would be a vocationally focused course with a year in industry at a good, but not mainly research, university. I think the most secure way into a good career is to do a degree apprenticeships with a big employer, like KPMG or Goldman Sachs. They usually don't use high ranking universities, usually midranking local ones with a strong vocational outlook, or they offer professional qualifications. It's usually the professional qualifications that matter the most.

Students who dont know what they want to do are definitely not doing English, which is struggling outside of RG. Also definitely not History which is taught as a very hard A Level and puts students off. My sense is they do Psychology or something to do with business.

I stand corrected.

@RampantIvy
I agree with other posters. It’s not really not knowing what to do but more like a comfort blanket of the familiar. If you look at grad employment and earnings tables, English is surprisingly low down. Geography is often a science and far more work related. History is in the middle. Business often has better potential from a lower grade university than English. I cannot say why employers are not so keen on English from lower tier universities but it might be what is studied and maybe they think it’s a little self indulgent?

Queen Mary in London e.g. is not super selective/high ranking but very popular with employers, among them Goldman Sachs, who use them to train their own people as engineers or in finance, and offer work experience to students at Queen Mary. Plymouth is also very popular with employers, as is Oxford Brooks. The most important thing is the course. STEM courses are most employable, as are number focused finance courses or data analytics. The city currently is desperate for anyone who is good with tech and has many vacancies/finds it hard to keep people as people are moving for higher salaries elsewhere. Google and Co really don't care about your university but they will want to find out how good you are by setting their own tests. Therefore any subject is good that helps with standardised tests, as more and more of the big paying employers now recruit blind (so don't ask which University attended), so it's an ever grester focus on getting high scores in assessment tests. While it's still possible to get onto a graduate programme with e.g. English, History or Media Studies, it will be hard to pass the selection tests without additional study/brush up on GCSE/A level maths and science.

It’s a stretch to think lots of English grads want tech jobs.

@TizerorFizz , is it? I'd have thought that something like Content Writing or Technical Writing might have been quite appealing to an English graduate.

Why? Can’t see the link. Most humanities grads write essays. English grads study literature. Doesn’t make them better writers.

In my experience, for these roles it is much easier to find a tech graduate with a good command of written English than an arts graduate who can master the requisite tech knowledge to write fluently in that area.

@TizerorFizz , English grads probably have good SPaG. If I was looking to hire a content writer or technical author, I would expect a good standard of English.
I've worked at places where technical authors have a degree in English.
I'd imagine that someone graduating in English might look for a writing or editing job.

@sproutsandpancetta , most tech graduates do not have good English. A graduate who is a good coder is unlikely to want to write.

Well my degree is University of Plymouth as I ducked out of Exeter....and I've been told my degree isn't worth the same as a Russell Group degree 😔 (STEM)

Our local hospital mainly employs University of Plymouth nurses and a senior nurse acquaintance commented on how the low entry requirements reflects the quality of nurses.

I was so upset and offended. But I just wish I went to a decent university... (like Exeter!)