How to work out whether Oxbridge will suit dd

[balzamico]

I'm ahead of myself here, dd has an interview for History at Oxford next week.
She is vacillating between excitement/ pride at getting this far and "I don't want to go, I want a normal (fun) uni experience"
Obviously it may be a decision that is made for her but if she were to get an offer can anyone advise how to work out whether it would work for her?
Her dad and I both went to RG unis, had a great time, came out with average degrees and have done well.
We only know one youngster whose been through the system and she is very different from dd

I’m 55 and I think it is vastly different now. Like you I didn’t work massively hard until a spurt in my final year and did lots of acting and socialising. However I’m a secondary school teacher and the feedback from ex students suggests it’s much more intense work wise than it used to be.

I read English at Oxford and loved it, made excellent friends who have been confidantes, flatmates and godparents since. The workload is high, but if you can manage your own time and love your subject it's fine. Spending the day in the Radcliffe camera with a pile of interesting books was near idyllic for me.
I would tell your DD to use the interview to scope it out. There'll be lots of current students there to entertain the interviewees so she can ask them how they find it and she should have down time to explore the city a little bit too. Although the interviews are daunting, they are meant to be mock tutorials most of all, so she'll also get a sample of the teaching style from those. With things like this, ultimately she's got to go with her gut instinct after the interview- can she see herself being happy there?

Also the individual attention you get at Oxford is unparalleled I think. By third year a lot of my tutorials were 1-1 and my tutors knew me and my work really well - my husband went to another RG university and was amazed that I'm on friendly terms with old tutors 10 years later, can pop in for tea when I'm in the area. Compared to the education I had, most other places seem like a rip off to me!

It's unfortunate that the majority of Oxbridge interviews are still online so there isn't the opportunity to use the interview to decide if you can see yourself there.

DD graduated this year in a STEM subject from Oxford. She found it less challenging overall than taking four A Levels alongside a high level of extracurricular commitments and an hour's commute each way to school. She filled her free time with loads of extra curricular stuff and socialising and still managed to get a First and a decent grad job. She was aware that her friends at other universities doing the same subject didn't have as much work to do but she loved her time at Oxford and has no regrets.

DS is at Cambridge and is similarly thriving. He too plays high level sport and was already used to managing his time between sport/other interests/academics/friends throughout GCSEs and A Levels. I would say that my DC's are competent at their degree subjects but have other significant interests elsewhere that help give balance to the whole uni experience.

Good luck to your DD. It's going to entirely depend on the person she is whether or not she thrives at Oxford. My DS2 is doing History there at the moment and loves it. (DS1 is at Cambridge doing English and enjoying himself immensely too). It's a very good fit for him, as he likes to be busy and he hasn't found the amount of work too much at all. He's usually a week ahead all term academically, so he can happily then fit in all his extracurricular activities and socialising and it's just really about planning and organising your time efficiently, which he's good at. He loves the tutorial system and feels he's 'getting his money's worth' compared to unis which are lecture-focused.

I think some other subjects at Oxbridge, where there are lots of different kinds of things to do each week, not just an essay or two, can be more pressured, as you're juggling lots of different things eg labs., worksheets, translations - basically, any degree where it's not just focused on one set of reading and one or two essays. But History is pretty straightforward once you get a handle on what's expected and how to write a good enough essay.

His social life is far more active than it was at school and there are so many other perks of Oxford: cheaper accommodation, the 'security' of a ready-made small community ie your college (although some are bigger than others), so many opportunities to try sports and other activities that you might never have tried before and where you really don't need to be good at them but can just have fun.

Another big advantage is the diverse and mixed student population, compared to some of the other Russell group unis. Neither he nor DS1 at C has come across snobbery or any sense of poshness and everyone is happily united by a love of their subject and a love of learning. There seems to be plenty of room for all types - from party people who like pubbing and clubbing to those prefer other activities.

I think if your DD adores her subject and has a balanced attitude of work hard, play hard and is fairly good at keeping organised, she'll love it. If however she's so perfectionistic she feels she should be working all the time and constantly compares herself unfavourably to peers, then it might be more difficult. It can also take many students a few terms before they kind of 'get' what's required in terms of reading and essay production but once you've cracked it and ensured you have a balanced life of work and play, it could be the best time she's ever had.

"I don't want to go, I want a normal (fun) uni experience"

Oxford is a 'normal fun experience.' Lots of fun. Work hard, play hard.

balanced attitude of work hard, play hard balanced is the key word here as even ‘playing hard’ can become stressful if perfectionism makes it about achievement rather than relaxation. Basically if a student is accepted to Oxford or Cambridge they are capable of a 2:1 without having to devote all their time to work. The whole experience is for them to own and direct rather than feeling as though they are on a treadmill from which there is no escape.

DD did engineering at Cambridge which is a pretty demanding course, and had a good time (despite the disruption due to covid in the 3rd and 4th years).

I think it depends a lot on the course. DS has just started at Cambridge doing a STEM course. It is very intense and fast-paced,and it's all condensed into short terms. He knew exactly what he was getting into though, he had researched so much into life at Cambridge that none of it has been a surprise and he seems happy there but does spend a lot of time either in the department or in his room working. He does love his subject, though, and is quite nerdy so is finding the challenge of the work fun and doesn't mind at all that he spends most evenings in his room working, he enjoys it. He was always a hard worker academically, and done supercurricular stuff for his own interest and fun. (Whereas, DS2 works hard at his A-levels but not AS hard, and has less subject enthusiasm, he prefers socialising with his mates, so I know he won't be thinking of Oxbridge and I don't think he'd suit it either/it would suit him.)

He definitely isn't a pubber or clubber but has given it a bit of a go recently but I don't think he is living your average student life, no. It is a lot of work. But the holidays are long! (expectation to do internships etc though, sometimes) But there are so many great opportunities and it's a really great city to be a student in. The quality of everything comes across. I was a student/have worked in lower tier universities myself, and there is a world of difference between them. Due to their age, Oxford and Cambridge are wealthy universities, and it shows. You only have to look at the departmental web pages to see how well organised it all is, compared to some other unis.

As someone else said, I think the admissions systems are extremely thorough. They WANT students to thrive there, and they know what they're looking for when they interview and look at their application and/or admissions test. I guessed myself that DS would be an ideal Oxbridge candidate so it wasn't a massive surprise when he was given an offer. I wouldn't have enjoyed the workload and high expectations, though, or the intensity, and I knew my younger son wouldn't either. He definitely wants a more "normal" experience.

What I would say, is that applying to Cambridge all came from DS. All of it. I was taken aback when he announced he wanted to go there, when he was in Year 12. Then he set about finding out exactly what he needed to do to get in, it all came from him. Every bit of it. He read and read about the process and continued to weigh it up as he went along whether he was ok with this or that. By the time it came to application time he was 100% sure, and I think that must come across to the admissions team.

I can sympathise, OP! DD spent the whole of her first year wondering whether she'd made the right choice, given that no one hugely expected her to get an offer, she wasn't sure she had 'passion' so much as an intelligent interest, and she was probably in the bottom third for A-level profile.

Now in her second year, she has just described herself as 'bumbling merrily through the field, having an interesting time of it'. She also caught herself saying 'God, I love this stuff!' to a friend the other day and realised that just possibly that's what all the super-keenies mean by 'passion' anyway.

I should say that 'merrily' is not the term she used last week when all her essay delays came home to roost.

Maybe you should both have a read of this thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/4509614-Workload-at-Oxbridge-honest-feedback-please

And then make a decision after that.

I have a DD in her second year at Oxford. If she had her time over again, I'm not sure she would accept the Oxford offer. I am a bit concerned that people who were able to have brilliant social lives at Oxbridge and still come away with a first are overrepresented on this thread. OP, I certainly don't see it as a no brainer that your DD should accept the offer from Oxford if she gets one. I do have some thoughts on what factors I would see as "moving the dial" towards or away from accepting an Oxford offer, but not sure whether you're still reading this thread. Please tag me in a post if you're interested in seeing my thoughts.

OP, I think that is no such thing as an "Oxbridge type." It's true, nobody there would have got a B at A-level, but any student with one or two or three A stars could cope with the work. There are all types there from extreme introverts to goodness only knows what. They are exactly the same as kids at other similar unis. DS has written maybe 7 or 8 essays this term, but he doesn't the find it too bad at all and is out probably most nights, plus he has almost daily choral scholar commitments. But he finds it fine - as he says "this is my job right now." There loads of support snd it's a beautiful place. Don't overthink it.

But he finds it fine - as he says "this is my job right now."

My dd had a similar attitude. It baffles me why any students sign up for courses that aren't going to be essentially an academically challenging full time job - what a waste of time, money and opportunity. A full time job still leaves time for a good social life.

As some other PPs have said the interviewers are experienced at selecting those who are likely to thrive - they want those they offer places to to succeed.

Also if offered a place many colleges have offer holder days. My DD had online interviews last year then given an offer and a month later went to an offer holder day. It really reassured her there would be plenty of people like her. She felt much happier after that visit.

Good luck to your DD

Seeing DD go through the application process the fact your DD has got this far speaks volumes. Many are capable of applying but choose not to as all the extra hoops and work are not attractive or the course isn’t of interest.

DD is at a school who are pretty good at identifying those who really could thrive at Oxbridge and of those who apply only a few don’t get to interview stage. If your daughter chose to apply encourage her to remind herself why and she may answer her own question.

We had this a little with DD. If your DD gets an offer you can reassure her that she will meet nice people, she doesn't have to 'eat drink and breathe' her subject to do well, and she will have a social life.

DS was at Oxford when DD was applying and was working very hard - but loved it. DS was 'classic' Oxford material in that he had done lots of extra learning and had self taught extra GCSE modules. He still had a social life and great friends but it took 2nd place to work.

DD is more relaxed and vacillated between liking the sound of the Oxford method (small tutorials etc) and FOMO with the wilder social life at her second choice (Leeds).

She chose Oxford and has no regrets. Her course isn't as intense as DS's and she has lots of fun. Socials, bops, clubbing and a sport. She has visited friends at other Unis (Leeds and Sheffield) and reckons she couldn't have kept up with their social life anyway!

DD does love her subject, but not with the obsession that some people seem to think you need if you go to Oxbridge. She is in her second year and is doing well, with the right balance.

OP, I think that is no such thing as an "Oxbridge type." It's true, nobody there would have got a B at A-level

That's absolutely not true about B grades. It may be unusual but B grades are a thing.

OP unless your DD has struggles that you haven't mentioned, I would say that you're overthinking this.

I know of at least three very recent students from our school who got B grades and all three were still accepted by their relevant colleges. Those grades were not appealed so never moved subsequently. One Theology, one Medicine, one History.

I was there as was DC. There are more essays than at other unis but accordingly they don't count as much (comparing with my SIL at another uni- she did two essays a term but they were marked and assessed and actually counted for something, whereas I did one a week which I read out in my tutorial and it was really just a springboard for discussion, so if it was crap it didn't much matter).

Definitely no "Oxbridge type"- there are people who are entirely wedded to their subject but also plenty who just enjoy it a normal amount and fill their days with other stuff, from plays and sports to drinking and partying, same as anywhere else.

I'm not going to say it suits everyone because I don't think anywhere does. However, I will say that I think the horror stories people spread about workload (or the ones about everyone there being posh- again, not remotely true) are a big factor in reducing diversity at Oxbridge. You don't have to be a nerd or a toff and most people aren't.

It's definitely possible to have fun, massively sided by being able to live in the middle of the city and having your cooking and cleaning done for you. There's much less of an attitude that you can only do extra curricular if you're good than at other universities so music, sport and drama are all much more accessible to all students, even if they suck at it!

With regards to mental health, I suspect it's more visible because it's taken more seriously. At another university, students can stop going to lectures and have a quiet breakdown in their bedroom in the suburbs. Parents only find out when they fail the year. At Oxford, it is picked up by peers and tutors almost immediately and steps are taken. That is often sending the student home to recover which makes it quite visible. They often return the next year.

Oxford is a great place to be a student and she’ll get a real feel for if she wants to go after interview. She’ll more than likely love it.
The only person who I know who went to Oxbridge and found it hard was someone who was exceptional at school, turned up at Cambridge and had the shock of her life that she was very average amongst her cohort. So it depends on the perspective that someone goes in with too…

goodbyestranger - if you look at the stats for Cambridge in recent years though, students admitted with a B grade are only about 0.6% of the total intake. So quite few and far between! Maybe Oxford is more flexible, but I wouldn't have thought it's a massive difference.

Anyway, grades are just part of it, but my point was really that (bar a small minority of exceptional probably 'genius' types) there's no difference between an average student with top grades at Oxbridge to ones with the same kind of educational profile who are rejected and end up at UCL, Imperial, LSE, Durham, etc. A lot of it is luck on the interview day and there is never any way to know how any uni will pan out anyway.

Yes, it can be a shock sometimes to those who are used to being the big fish in a small pond. But if they are used to working hard, or used to an academically-charged school environment, it's just a continuation of that really. Imposter syndrome can be a real thing for anyone, but the colleges talk to them all about that in the early weeks and then they realise they're all in the same boat.