Anxious about Dd potentially going to London University

[AffronttoBS]

Dd is applying for ucas 2023 entry, two out of her 5 choices are London (imperial and ucl). If she gets offers, on the one hand they are fantastic universities, and London should be full of opportunities and it would be great to study and live there. On the other hand, I’m getting more and more nervous about the state of things in London, especially regarding the decline of law and order and how risky it would be for her as an environment to learn to be independent.

aibu? Are there other parents feeling this way? Or if you are a parent of a yr 1 , yr 2 London student, how do you feel about your dc studying in London?

A lot of the issues around crime are gang related between gangs and dealers so don't tend to involve the general public and in the outer parts of London where students don't generally hang around. I have lived and worked in London for 30 years and have never had any issues. My teens go to school daily in London on public transport. There have been issues with gangs of kids not much older than them robbing them for iPhone and earbuds but the school's/BTP crack down pretty quickly and they move on. I can't imagine much of this affecting students at UCL or Imperial which are in highly CCTV monitored and highly policed bits of central London. Maybe if they live in the more lively bits in second/third year I suppose and that where the street-wise advice probably comes in.

My eldest is also applying to unis at the moment and my only concern with London would have been cost and how spread out everyone and everything is, making friendships harder. That being said I did a masters at a London uni and had a great time and great social life. And I imagine first year halls are like anywhere else's first year halls and great for meeting people. My DH's 3 best mates today that he sees every other week are people he met in London first year halls 30 years ago.

I never feel unsafe in London but I did recently in Birmingham. It probably depends where you're used to.

Most of my family have grown up in London and we've all survived! It's fine. It's one of the best cities in the world and your daughter will have a blast. I envy her!

I echo what others have said about London. Growing up in London I never saw fights until I moved away and went out at night in small towns with friends.

The other good thing about getting used to London is that it makes you savvy for other big cities around the world. So, for example, the New York subway was manageable because of London. Apply that to most cities across the world.

I think it's part of learning to be grown up to feel comfortable in big cities. Not to act all bewildered and scared which may make you a target.

If my children wanted to study there my main concern would be cost rather than safety.

@xpc316e my impression is that crime in London is going back to their 90s level. However, I was a student in London in the 90s and yes, there were lots of places you tried not to go to but I never had anything terrible happen to me. It's a bit different if you are male, my impression is that they can be victims of more general violence and muggins. If you are a girl, they might try to nick your phone but probably wont beat you up not sure its the same if you are a young male.

The main difference about London and elsewhere as a student is how spread out things actually are. In most other cities, you get student areas i.e. spaces where you feel as though you are in the majority. Most students dont all end up living in the same area once they leave halls unlike even in Birmingham. Thats not true in London. It's a much more grown up experience. It's also very expensive. Nowadays international students are effectively millionaires and most British students just cant compete - unlike in my day. However, if my kid wanted to go there, I wouldnt discourage them. In fact, as an academic - I would certainly encourage them to look at Oxbridge and London unis above all else.

Another Londoner, and not one who lives in a leafy suburb. Honestly I wouldn't have an issue at all with studying at UCL or Imperial, or any other London uni. It doesn't feel any more unsafe here than any other city. There are so many people around and the transport is so good, as others have said.

Someone upthread mentioned there being more drugs and alcohol. I actually think this isn't true at all. There is so much to do here that you don't need the stimulants. The uni I went to with the most drug use was a small seaside one where there was nothing else to do.

I've lived in London since I graduated 20 years ago. The most crime that has happened to me is my car was rifled through in the middle of the night.

I am a Londoner born and bred, and my DC have been going to school alone on the tube since age 11. That's very common, so as a young adult, your DD will most likely be fine. One plus of London is that there isn't really a "student area" for burglars and muggers to target specifically like in some other cities. If your DD is lucky enough to get offers from those two world class uni's, then I wouldn't let fear of crime be the reason she passes that up.

I know you are getting a hard time OP so far on this thread but I do get your concerns.

I have lived in London for 30 years and I am moving out of the city because I have enough of the anti-social behaviour, over-crowding, noise and how expensive everything is.

I think that London is no better or worse than any other big city though and that I am sure your daughter would love it as a young person.

But there is also no doubt that it comes with additional issues.

I am going to disagree that things haven't got worse. I think they have because less money from government is going into youth services, housing support and so on so that definitely has led to increased inequalities and problems with anti-social behaviour and crime.

I have never seen so many homeless people in this city for example and gangs and lack of effective policing are definitely an issues in many parts of the city.

If you live in a leafy, wealthy part of town you probably are insulated from most of the problems but the reality is very different for many people.

Personally I can't wait to leave.

I don't think anyone is giving the OP a hard time? Just talking about their own experiences and offering reassurances.

As an aside, I am splitting time between London, Manchester and Birmingham at the moment for work and I see far, far, far more homeless people in Manchester than I do in central London, I have to say and I see more obvious criminal behaviour (dealing etc) in both Manchester and Birmingham. London is a huge city with huge city issues like all cities but it is no different from any other and crimes happen in small cities,town and villages as well. I feel more at risk from car crime for example here in the leafy suburbs than if I still lived in central London.

On the other hand, I’m getting more and more nervous about the state of things in London, especially regarding the decline of law and order and how risky it would be for her as an environment to learn to be independent.

Sounds like a case of too much Daily Fail.

The top ten areas of England and Wales for highest crime rates (excluding fraud) relative to population.

www.churchillsupportservices.com/resources/news-insights/most-dangerous-areas-in-england-and-wales-2022/

My DD is at uni in London and loving it despite my many sleepless nights in the run up to her going. Her group look after each other which helps hugely. The truth is she loves London but it is frustrating that she has to watch and take care .. only a few weeks go a fellow student's phone was swiped from a table in Pret. They are currently on what Caitlin Moran from the Times described as " winter hours", not free to come and go as they please after dark .. always mindful of location and time. However, despite this, she's right at the heart of diverse, international student community and city and she is so glad she went there .. as are we ...

Thanks for all the constructive inputs and comments, which have put my mind at ease to some degree. I think if she is fortunate enough to get offers , it would certainly be a fantastic place to be as a student and lots of potential work opportunities afters (the cost of accommodation would also need careful looking into). Many international students want to come to London uni s precisely because of London. Such a vibrant, dynamic city with so much to do. I've always loved it when we visited, but it is getting noticeably more crowded in the last 15 years.

@Artygirlghost thanks Arty. I appreciate the comments and inputs from the MN ers, some of the sneery less constructive comments I just ignore and put it down to SM being SM, no big deal. I think ex copper @xpc316e who 'dared' to express a different viewpoint had a tougher time. And I'm glad that the thread also helped @Mumof3girlsandaboy who's dd starts at UCL in January.

I think ex copper @xpc316e who 'dared' to express a different viewpoint had a tougher time

S/he got a tougher time because those comments weren't reflecting posters' experience and was one anecdote about family. Like I said at the time, being in the police inevitable means s/he is going to see a lot of crime.

Some bit of London are crowded, for sure but I really don't think it's back to pre-pandemic levels as yet in central London where these unis are, mainly because at least half of all office workers still work from home, all or part of the time, if not more. The train commuter services are still not back to normal frequency for most people. I can't see that changing anytime soon and I think most places will end up staying less busy than they were (and that's a good thing). The City and Oxford Street are 2 areas that are way less crowded than they used to be, Covent Garden and SoHo too maybe.

I also wonder if we will see an improvement in rental prices for students, and others from repurposing vacant office space. Not sure it's really happened yet but accordig to a friend who is a commercial property lawyer there are plans afoot to do this.

OP still hasn't contextualised her comments or said where they currently live. No idea what perspective she and her daughter are coming from.

The ex-copper reminded me of a good friend who is an obstetrician. She is horrified about being pregnant and having to give birth and is electing for a C section. She sees the worse cases of pregnancy and childbirth, only, because she is a consultant. She doesn't see the 100s of successful normal deliveries that the midwives do. This is bound to skew your perception of risk and danger a bit I think. Same with the police. They are at the coal face of crime and deal with criminals and crime scenes every day. That doesn't necessarily reflect the average experience of most people.

I was a volunteer marshal during the Queens funeral. I met coppers from all over the country. Several commented on how nice it was being surrounded by nice, polite, friendly and normal people. This did not happen in their days jobs wherever they came from, and served as a useful reminder of the odd perspective they got.

I work at Imperial on the South Kensington site. Couldn't be a nicer, safer environment. I haven't spent much time on the other sites but they are not in areas that I would worry about living in.

Yes she has.

There are dodgy neighbourhoods in London so I get why you're worried. London would be such a wonderful experience for her though!

I think I would choose a safe neighbourhood to live in and then be sensible when going out.

Ah. My apologies. It was another poster who said she lived in Hampshire, I think.

My DB was robbed at knifepoint in the 80s walking down the road in tiny village in rural Lancashire. Turned out to be a local addict. Doesn't mean the place now rivals south central LA, just shows odd incidents like this can happen anywhere.

Son went to Kings College London, Daughter went to Gloucester. Daughter has seen dead bodies on three separate occasions in the town centre(covered as police had arrived) and witnessed violence. Son never witnessed anything like that! He always said that London is as dangerous as you want to make it - be sensible and plan for danger and you are less likely to experience it. he was there for 6 years in the end and no trouble.

I certainly think that the university experience is very different between London and elsewhere. It's a lot less cosy, students have to be a lot more independent because they will be spending a lot more time navigating things by themselves. It certainly isnt a small quaint university town. Perhaps a smaller place can be 'nicer' for 1st degree. However, it's also a great place for figuring things out, which internships to do, how to live by yourself etc. You grow up fast in London but thats no bad thing. From a safety perspective, I was horrified of the city center last time I went to Manchester, Birmingham on a Friday night can also be pretty tense as a student and there were always plenty of fights between the locals and students at Oxford.