Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from from Oxbridge?

[mids2019]

Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from Oxbridge?

My daughter was watching some American teen thing yesterday on Netflix and there was girl who's entire future lay on getting into Yale and Ivy League entrance was the be all and end all for this particular group of teenagers.

I know the US has a different HE system and culture but do we still have similar views in the UK in 2022? If there are prestigious universities in the UK how would you define this prestige? If we only allow Oxbridge the prestige label does this mean anyone who wishes to go a prestigious university has one (or two) Oxbridge or busy type application experiences then that ship sails?

Or maybe prestige is an archaic class ridden concept that is fading this millennium?

I was drawn to one of the RG v other university discussions and it may appear that the RG is being used as an artificial label to convey prestige in an HE environment where competition for Oxbridge is more intense than ever.

It's often assumed that the "Ivy leagues" are the top schools in the entire US. Not so: the Ivy league started as a sports league - only schools in the north-east corner of the country were included because they had to be within easy travelling distance for sports fixtures. In particular all the excellent schools in the western US (e.g. Stanford, Berkeley, the whole UC system) were too far away.
As for UK unis, its absurd to say only oxbridge are known internationally: Imperial and UCL feature in most global top ten rankings. Edinburgh, Manchester and Kings also place very highly in international rankings.
There can be no definitive ranking because some unis do better at postgrad / research (e.g Edinburgh, Kings) and have international reputations whereas others have strong undergrad programmes with high student satisfaction (e.g. Bath, St Andrews) and do better in domestic rankings. So it depends how much weight is given to undergrad vs postgrad.
"Russell group" institutions were primarily self-selecting, with the main criteria for admittance to the club being size and research funding. Russell group membership says very little about teaching quality or undergraduate experience (but a lot more about where's a good place to do a Phd). The criteria are biased against smaller institutions.
An alternative more selective/independent list is the Sutton 13 : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutton_Trust#Sutton_Trust_13. It's not perfect either - it reflects rankings and entry standards at the time it was compiled 20 years ago. But around 10 of the original 13 would still be included if the list were recompiled using equivalent data and methodology today.

Wasn't UCL in there too?

Sorry, yes, UCL is also in the top 10 globally (at nr 8).

neither is st Andrews - it’s been there a very long time 🤷‍♀️

I was responding to some who didn’t seem to realise how well regarded it is.

times have it above oxbridge too so something for dif readers!

Subjective and subject dependent. Sheffield is excellent for engineering, Durham really isn't, for instance.

It's often assumed that the "Ivy leagues" are the top schools in the entire US. Not so: the Ivy league started as a sports league - only schools in the north-east corner of the country were included because they had to be within easy travelling distance for sports fixtures. In particular all the excellent schools in the western US (e.g. Stanford, Berkeley, the whole UC system) were too far away.

Yes ... about the only times I've heard any mention of 'ivies' among my US colleagues was when we were based in Boston and those who'd been to Brown would get ribbed. (I had no idea why at the time, I'd never heard of it)

While there are more top US universities to apply to, actually chances of getting in to any of them are much lower than getting an Oxbridge offer (just speaking statistically - there are various factors involved).

Last year, just 3.1% of applicants to Harvard got in.

www.collegeadvisor.com/acceptance-rates/harvard-acceptance-rate/

Compare to Oxford: www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/AnnualAdmissionsStatisticalReport2022.pdf

This really baffles me. I know so many bright, well-turned out UCL graduates but not a genius among them.

St Andrews is not generally regarded as a centre of academic excellence. It is a popular destination for the not-so-bright sons and daughters of the rich who want to spend three years partying and still leave with a certificate.

The Times Higher Education Global Rankings only contains Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial in the top 10

St Andrew definitely. It was ranked alongside the other two in various Uni ratings tables this and last year.

Are there a lot of graduates of St Andrew’s on MN right now? 😆

tbh this is my impression of St. Andrews although it Is a solid choice it’s not known for academic excellence and research and it’s reputation was improved greatly by the royal
connection. Not on a par with Oxbridge and some of the others.

To add to previous comments. International reputation in world ranking tables requires lobbying international colleagues for votes.
Not something I or many other researchers with the required high standing international network can be bothered to do. So depending on similar attitudes of academics at other universities an institution ranking may be lower than its research deserves.

Yep.
Salford here, 1984-1988.
My largest lecture was 60 of us for linguistics, my language lectures had 9 (Spanish) and 16 (French) and all interpreting and other tutorial style classes were done in groups of 4.
Salford no longer has a Modern Languages dept. In the 1980s it was in the top 5 in Europe, second in the UK to Oxford. ISTI in Belgium was also in the top 5 and where we were sent to do our 6months abroad. Iirc one of the others was Geneva.

I also refuse to believe pp claiming to be an academic with such an atrocious grasp of English.
And that's from someone who is a vehement defender of the fact that MN is not school and any posts criticising other people's SpaG should be deleted.
Unless it's a fake post or the poster is being a bit of a troll obvs.

😂 just Google it - St. Andrews rank top in many subjects eg neuroscience and need top grades to get in.

posh kids never go to oxbridge of course 😂

@kingtamponthefurred been there yourself have you? You need 3As at A Level to get in, at least.

It used to have the reputation as being the place you went if you were rejected by Durham. Not any more though. Its International Relations and Chemistry departments are particularly well regarded.

There can be no definitive ranking because some unis do better at postgrad / research (e.g Edinburgh, Kings) and have international reputations whereas others have strong undergrad programmes with high student satisfaction (e.g. Bath, St Andrews) and do better in domestic rankings. So it depends how much weight is given to undergrad vs postgrad.

Quite so. DD2 did her Masters at a specialised London university which doesn't appear in league tables because it doesn't offer under-graduate courses. For her particular STEM subject, though, its Masters course is rated behind only Oxford and above every other university in the UK, including Cambridge.

At Leeds my tutorials had 3-5 people - fine by me. Got some good debates going. One to one sounds a bit awkward.

I don’t think Leeds would rank as prestigious by the OPs measure but it’s hugely popular with students inc international

There is a huge amount of academic snobbery especially East Coast USA. Yes some families are very focused on Ivy League colleges. But there are hundreds of other private and publicly funded colleges to in the USA too with a wide variety of courses on offer. Just remember your daughter is watching a fictional TV show with a specific focus.

In the UK its Oxbridge, Durham, Exeter, Imperial, UCL St Andrews etc etc. In the end what really matters is that your offspring are happy, enjoy their studies, form some solid friendships and develop the skills and confidence to survive and thrive as independent adults in modern society. Life does not just revolve round exam results.

Bath has very recently been named University of the Year by The Times and Sunday Times. DD did her MEng there through covid but I guess they didn't handle it worse than others. She also had lecturer strikes to deal with, again out of their control. Overall though, she was happy and it does rank amongst the more desirable unis for sports and engineering, at least.

This ^^

unless you are writing a teen film of course

Yes. The ancient universities in the UK are Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrews, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Edinburgh. All others are 19th century or later.

Hands up…not my grasp of English..just typing on an iPad with 2 fingers balancing on my lap.

not the only one on here.

and didn’t claim to be an academic in my case.

I get it annoys some people that there are typos and stuff that autocorrects incorrectly like their/they’re (one I spotted after posting that did annoy me). MN certainly seems to produce some weird autocorrects 🤷🏼‍♀️

But really , I can’t be arsed on a quick moving thread to spell and typo check everything. Especially as MN doesn’t provide any tools. I’d have to go into word and then paste 🤦‍♀️. I have a form of dyslexia and don’t read words phonetically - but by overall shape- means I’m crap at spelling and terrible proof reading.

sorry, realise it pisses you off not unreasonably, but you get the idea.

it sure isn’t a sign of poor English grasp - my mum was an English teacher by the way 🤣🤣. I’m actually normally excellant at grammar, but after 35 years even my mum couldn’t fix my spelling 🤣. Or my db who are afflicted with same family crap spelling weirdness

maybe instead of “telling off “ people off, you could use your skills to persuade MN to add a spelling and grammar check?
thanks

Um … the international league tables would disagree. But most measures, St Andrews is one of the top UK universities and it’s hard to get into.