Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from from Oxbridge?

[mids2019]

Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from Oxbridge?

My daughter was watching some American teen thing yesterday on Netflix and there was girl who's entire future lay on getting into Yale and Ivy League entrance was the be all and end all for this particular group of teenagers.

I know the US has a different HE system and culture but do we still have similar views in the UK in 2022? If there are prestigious universities in the UK how would you define this prestige? If we only allow Oxbridge the prestige label does this mean anyone who wishes to go a prestigious university has one (or two) Oxbridge or busy type application experiences then that ship sails?

Or maybe prestige is an archaic class ridden concept that is fading this millennium?

I was drawn to one of the RG v other university discussions and it may appear that the RG is being used as an artificial label to convey prestige in an HE environment where competition for Oxbridge is more intense than ever.

many from the north have little interest in applying for jobs in London. A pity.

I think the greater pity is that jobs aren't sufficiently evenly spread across the country. Too many people crammed into areas with high housing costs.

We don't bother with trying to recruit from the southern universities, we find their graduates generally don't want to move to the north (unless they come from the north originally).

This is true for all areas. There was some research done on this and it found that graduates either stay where they went to Uni or move back to where they were originally from.

Those moving to completely new areas or moving to London for work were in the minority.

Agree with @Ciri, it's largely so parents can say their DCs are at Durham/Exeter/Bristol rather than at Sheffield Hallam/Oxford Brookes/Northumbria. It also serves as shorthand for A level grades because people know if you're studying law at Bristol you probably got a mixture of As and A*s.

But are the kids themselves that concerned? When they meet up with schoolfriends in the holidays all the questions are about whether they are enjoying it, what the accommodation is like, how expensive it is, are the facilities good, what is the nightlife like, whether the societies are interesting/well run and so on. I've yet to hear a conversation where future job prospects are a major factor – 'I'm not really enjoying my course at all but I know I'm going to get offered a Big Four accountancy position at the end of it and that's all that matters'. I don't think so.

With regard to league tables, the general ones really tell you very little, with the probable exception of Oxbridge. You need to drill down into the subject-specific ones (and then look further into course details) for them to be of much use. Also, certain courses can be highly regarded within an industry even when those outside the industry aren't aware of them, like in those examples given by @Needmoresleep above – does general recognition matter? I would argue not. Much more important is that recruiters and senior figures in the industry will be aware of a particular course's reputation.

For example, physiotherapy at Coventry is highly regarded in the physiotherapy world – it's only 30+ in the table but that's because it doesn't carry out any research so it scores zero on that metric. It's sole focus is educating its students and it has a high student satisfaction rating and a 100% graduate prospects rating. Those 2 factors are far more relevant to an 18-year-old applying for an undergraduate degree.

Much more important is that recruiters and senior figures in the industry will be aware of a particular course's reputation.

This is true. I work in the area of university careers and employability/ graduate recruitment and I've been saying this for years yet people on MN will tell me I'm lying....even though I literally deal with this data every day!

I suspect there are social differences. When I was a student (at a research heavy university) we were very much encouraged to go to a different university to do a PhD and I can only think of a couple of my friends who stayed in that city or who 'went home'. Most of us went somewhere else to postdoc. At work those of us who have PhDs (there's a lot of us) or masters are the least likely to be local. I think after spending your 20s doing multiple degrees and then post docs you don't feel attached to just one place. Agree my school friends that just did one degree are much more likely to have gone home.

Adding to that, DS is at Cardiff (much lower down the league tables and cause for some to shudder on MN) also studying CS. He has already secured a fantastic job in Software Engr for when he graduates this year, the pay will make STF loan kick in twice over immediately. In addition, there's a chance of an even more prestigious job round the corner he's been shortlisted for and he's got recruitment agencies ringing him everyday for jobs, we've had to tell him to pull his CV for now.

This isn't to brag. this is to show people that league tables are a good tool to start with and get an idea of where you might be pitching for, but it doesn't mean if you don't go to the absolute top 5 universities you won't get employment. This is a myth touted on MN (and the student room)

Sheffield is absolutely a good university for CS whatever the QS rankings say and fretting over rankings no 11 v 13 etc is akin to self flagellation.

Given the sheer expense of going to university these days, the kids are also giving consideration to the rankings of various universities.

Yes! My dc were very keen to get onto the 'best' courses for their subjects.

Given that a degree at Oxbridge or Imperial/LSE costs exactly the same as one from a lower ranked Uni it makes sense to aim for those with the best career prospects.

I've never said that if you don't get into the top 5, you won't get any employment.

That's totally absurd. The thread was originally about the prestigious universities after Oxbridge.

A degree in STEM is a golden ticket that will secure employment for the rest of a student's life, whether it's from Sheffield, Cardiff, Bristol or wherever.

@littelmemaydnes In case your post was directed at me, I'm mystified as to why you think my post has anything to do with you or anything you said? just read your posts and can see no mention of 'top 5 unis' and your username hasn't registered at all until now.

This isn't to brag. this is to show people that league tables are a good tool to start with and get an idea of where you might be pitching for, but it doesn't mean if you don't go to the absolute top 5 universities you won't get employment.

Of course! And a Computer Science graduate is likely to do well simply because of the huge demand for those skills.

But this thread is particularly about the most 'prestigious' universities in the UK.

My DC was at a very academic london day school where pretty much everyone would have been predicted 4 A stars or equivalent. Unless doing medicine/vetinary/dentistry, they all seemed to apply to the same list of universities and UCAS firms tended to look something like this:

1. Oxford or Cambridge
2. A London university - either Imperial (stem): LSE (Economics): UCL (other subjects)
3. Durham
4. St Andrews OR Edinburgh (as they were told that rejection/acceptance was totally random with quite a low probability of a "yes" even with top grades)
5. A "Banker" which was usually Bristol/Bath/Warwick/Exeter or York depending on subject they wanted to study which they could be guaranteed an offer (although some going for Economics fell foul of this and ended up with nothing).

Most of them ended up with around 3 offers and if they didn't get Oxbridge the majority opted for London/Durham or Edinburgh/St As. Consequently there were loads of kids from the same school all ending up at the same handful of universities. I'm not sure if this is because they were perceived to be "the best" of if it was some sort of weird "group think" going on....

@Pinkdafodils Indeed it is but threads evolve as this one did and people discuss other things closely related to the OP and as you can see my post was on the back of Errol's post so not sure why you have an issue with it?

I suspect there are social differences. When I was a student (at a research heavy university) we were very much encouraged to go to a different university to do a PhD and I can only think of a couple of my friends who stayed in that city or who 'went home'. Most of us went somewhere else to postdoc. At work those of us who have PhDs (there's a lot of us) or masters are the least likely to be local. I think after spending your 20s doing multiple degrees and then post docs you don't feel attached to just one place. Agree my school friends that just did one degree are much more likely to have gone home.

Academia is unusual as there is an expectation that you will move around frequently. There are another small number of people going to love somewhere they have no connection to but they are relatively small in numbers.
Your average UG graduate is either staying in their university town or going home.

And in ours

oxbridge
bristol
nottingham
Leeds
birmingham

virtually nowhere else: 1/4 of the year went to Birmingham a couple of years ago and the majority of those lived in the same hall as each other

Our school must make up half of the Newcastle undergraduate population. Loads of the sporty boys apply and then they all hang out together like an extension of school.

it’s weird.

Hi @mids2019 it totally depends. There are many niche subjects that might only be offered at a very few universities.

Mostly non RG at my DC's school. 3 went to Oxbridge last year, lots went to Warwick, a handful to UCL, a couple to Bristol, many to Nottingham, a couple to Manchester and York.

20% did STEM degrees (relevant to my DC as they are interested in pursuing these careers).

Really interesting discussion. I guess if you were to write a UK school drama that featured aspirational characters Oxbridge would be the obvious trope to use. I don't think a scriptwriter would go there in the UK as we are a lot more reserved about ambition in the UK than US. The discussion I think shows there are other 'elite' course at other universities but the situation is quite nuanced.

It is nuanced. It seems that studying medicine for example is elite everywhere.

Definitely nuanced. As we've seen on this thread opinions about which universities are 'prestigious' varies, Oxbridge aside, and many are very highly regarded for certain specific subjects if not necessarily overall.

FWIW DD2 did her Masters at a college rated 2 in the UK and 4 in the world in her particular STEM field (so ahead of Cambridge and all other RG universities bar Oxford); its other specialisation is even higher rated than that. Everyone who works in medicine/biomedical science/public health would be aware of it, but outside those fields? Probably not. I doubt anyone at Grant Thornton or Clifford Chance would know much about it, but what does that matter? Students who go there aren't going to become accountants or lawyers.

Sorry, what's nuanced??

It's not "nuanced", there are very obviously some universities which are prestigious for some subjects and not others.

group think Most sixth formers rely heavily on the information relayed to them by their network of friends and recent school alumnae. The comfort blanket of herd mentality seems to be the strongest force in UCAS choices. It is otherwise difficult for them to predict where they will thrive. Of course at academic schools that usually includes a shortlist of the most competitive places they can gain entry to.

This had a massive impact on DS & his cohort. Two unis v popular on MN were dismissed out of hand as “full of posh Oxbridge rejects”. No amount of cajoling could make him even browse their websites.

But the decision of where to study is nuanced though. Applicants aren't one homogeneous group and their decisions on where to study are driven by so much more than what is technically best on paper.
These decisions are influenced by emotions, culture, experiences and 'horizons for action' which is essentially what they can see themselves doing.