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Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from from Oxbridge?

418 replies

mids2019 · 19/11/2022 17:53

Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from Oxbridge?

My daughter was watching some American teen thing yesterday on Netflix and there was girl who's entire future lay on getting into Yale and Ivy League entrance was the be all and end all for this particular group of teenagers.

I know the US has a different HE system and culture but do we still have similar views in the UK in 2022? If there are prestigious universities in the UK how would you define this prestige? If we only allow Oxbridge the prestige label does this mean anyone who wishes to go a prestigious university has one (or two) Oxbridge or busy type application experiences then that ship sails?

Or maybe prestige is an archaic class ridden concept that is fading this millennium?

I was drawn to one of the RG v other university discussions and it may appear that the RG is being used as an artificial label to convey prestige in an HE environment where competition for Oxbridge is more intense than ever.

OP posts:
Newlifestartingatlast · 20/11/2022 13:57

I think you need to go back to Russell group found in 1994 as the group of 24 Public research unis. These comprise mainly of the old “masonry ” universities in existence before 19th century (e.g. oxbridge, Durham, St. Andrews, Edinburgh, Dublin etc ) plus what are known as the “red Brick” uni (Red Brick refers to the original 9 universities in industrial cities founded in 19th century, but later also included universities built post Ww1 which at first we’re known as “glass). These terms genuinely do refer to building materials used- bricks being cheaper than stone etc.

These were all universities that existed long before the 1992 Education Act which allowed polytechnics to become full universities. And this is where the idea of not all universities being the same came from

Polys could not award their own degrees, a lot did not offer “honours” degrees but “ordinary” degrees at most , but also focused on diplomas etc. This difference was known as the “binary divide” and grew massively as more polys opened during the 1960s.

when I applied for Uni in early 80’s you had a choice of Uni or poly. I choose 3 Unis and 2 polys as my backups in my UCAS application, which was pretty standard then for comprehensive schools. Poly entrance grades were typically slightly lower

Universities were entirely different than Polys. Universities offered Academic courses being taught by the academic staff (sometimes really badly🙄🤣) and undertook academic research with funding they received as a main income and activity stream. They were in effect institutes of research that awarded degrees on the side.

Polys were more like tertiary level FE Colleges- courses taught by lecturers where that was usually their main job objectives - arguably giving better quality of teaching. . The courses were less acedemic, more practical and offfered completely different syllabus. often they had strong links into industry, businesses etc. and most research done by PolyS were in STEM subjects with a direct link to businesses. As a chemistry grad for instance- university gave me a BSc (hons) in pure chemistry - very much the theory and just a few modules of application. A poly ordinary degree I applied for would have had way more bench work /lab time and I would have been trained on analytical techniques in more detail to be able to hit the ground running after graduation to work in a laboratory.

I personally think it was a backward step to do away with polys and convert them to unis. But there was money and funding at play. Polys offered a
lot to a lot of people who didn’t want to do something very academic and theoretical. It was much more a accessible and equipped students strongly with skills they need for work through the polys links to industry.

before 1992 , only about 10% of population went to actual University. So, it tells you that they were pretty elitist institutes . There was snobbery around it. And that persists today in the continuation of “Russell group”. Probably the people who went to “Masonry” universities consider them to be prestigious - but in reality it depends on what degree you’re doing.

Newlifestartingatlast · 20/11/2022 14:04

plinkypots · 19/11/2022 19:13

Only Oxbridge are recognised internationally. The rest of the U.K. unis aren't worth it if you need international recognition. Truthfully though if you can get into Oxbridge you'll get a better education at the Ivy's.

Wtf? Are you for real? I think this is a troll post as it is not true. Unless you’re talking about a basket weaving course 🤣🤣🤣🙄🤦‍♀️

RosesAndHellebores · 20/11/2022 14:12

Very well put @Newlifestartingatlast

ghhnv6 · 20/11/2022 14:13

@Newlifestartingatlast have you asked an American or anyone working in an international firm abroad- they have all heard of Oxbridge, most have heard of Imperial, some of LSE but honestly thats about it. Lots of Americans - even academics havebt even heard of UCL. Thats not a troll post, am an academic and have spent many years working in the US and Europe before coming back to the UK. Having said that, most Brits have never heard of ETH.........the best University in mainland Europe and regularly coming very high in QS rankings.....so why are we surprised that foreigners have never heard of Bristol

Newlifestartingatlast · 20/11/2022 14:16

DeeofDenmark · 19/11/2022 18:54

Oxbridge do things totally different to other universities so earn their reputation. My husband was one of four in his college to study that subject so had regular tutorials where the group debated points and were encouraged by their professor. I went to a RG university and my smallest group had 30 students in it. They cover more breadth and depth but also give more support.

I went to good old red brick Newcastle uni and did chemistry during 1980s

i most certainly had all my tutorials in groups of no more than 5, and that involved a lot of open discussion and debate. These were with the proffesser of that subject (or one of them), I had at least one tutorial in a given subject per day. Er were expected to spend huge time in library researching and bring that learning to tutorials to expand on lectures.

I had a flat out timetable with few free periods as it included lectures, tutorials, and laboratory work.

I had mates at all sorts of Red brick and masonry universities doing STEM subjects- they’re timetables and teaching was no different to that.

so I don’t know what degree you did, when and where. But you are very worng in supposing that oxbridge is only place this is done. In 1980s this was standard way to teach at universities. Maybe not at the polys - I don’t know that.

Gummibär · 20/11/2022 14:22

I personally think it was a backward step to do away with polys and convert them to unis.

I agree. In Germany there are two types of Higher Education institutions - academic Universities and more practical Universities. The latter are great for more applied courses, whereas Universities teach very academic subjects.

Why were Polytechnics abolished in the UK?

Newlifestartingatlast · 20/11/2022 14:28

ghhnv6 · 20/11/2022 14:13

@Newlifestartingatlast have you asked an American or anyone working in an international firm abroad- they have all heard of Oxbridge, most have heard of Imperial, some of LSE but honestly thats about it. Lots of Americans - even academics havebt even heard of UCL. Thats not a troll post, am an academic and have spent many years working in the US and Europe before coming back to the UK. Having said that, most Brits have never heard of ETH.........the best University in mainland Europe and regularly coming very high in QS rankings.....so why are we surprised that foreigners have never heard of Bristol

I worked for a global Us based company for 28 years and was part of a us based team for last 10 years of that. And actually, no one gave a flying fuck where you’re degree came from - we were measured on our performance and hired based on our actual qualifications/experience.

So, why does it really matter? Most people will gain employment in uk that were educated in uk, and there is a lot of money coming into Russell group unis still from overseas students. (Ok, that might well disappear thanks to governments last 4 months and brexit 🤣)

yes, it may help you get a better first job, but after that you’ll be valued on the performance of your previous job.

or , If you are trying to become a recognised acedemic it is based on your research output - papers you’ve published .

that’s the whole con about this. Who remembers 20 years into their career what O levels or gcse they got, or even maybe A levels. You are only as good as the most recent relevant experience you have. No one has asked me what university I went to in 30 plus years, and I was part of senior leadership . They did ask about my professional qualifications I gained once employed and my experience

Newlifestartingatlast · 20/11/2022 14:29

Gummibär · 20/11/2022 14:22

I personally think it was a backward step to do away with polys and convert them to unis.

I agree. In Germany there are two types of Higher Education institutions - academic Universities and more practical Universities. The latter are great for more applied courses, whereas Universities teach very academic subjects.

Why were Polytechnics abolished in the UK?

Money
it’s always money

Snnowflake · 20/11/2022 15:04

Surely St Andrews for royals because it's off the beaten track relatively small and less chance of someone clocking you, journos following you than a london or oxford based uni,

thing47 · 20/11/2022 15:15

Just to say, there is a fair amount of controversy and concern about the criteria used for the QS world rankings. To give just one example, they will favour institutions which are strong in STEM subjects rather than humanities because of the heavy weighting they give to published academic papers. I certainly would take them with a large dose of salt.

EscapeRoomToTheSun · 20/11/2022 15:17

EVHead · 19/11/2022 18:08

I would say St Andrews ranks up there with Oxford and Cambridge.

Bollocks 😂

BoffinMum · 20/11/2022 15:29

Plinkypots, University of London is a massive international brand, when we partner with them for marketing, uptake is exponentially greater. I don’t think people realise it’s loads of universities and colleges rolled into one.

Wardrobemalfunction22 · 20/11/2022 15:41

Prestige surely varies massively based on subject. Glasgow School of Art might be top choice for some subjects whereas Loughborough for others. Its a completely abstract concept and I think most students go with whichever uni has a combination of good representation for their subject, good marketing and popular with their circle of friends.

Newgirls · 20/11/2022 16:14

EscapeRoomToTheSun · 20/11/2022 15:17

Bollocks 😂

How odd. Times and Guardian rank St Andrew’s above oxbridge now. Pos due to courses like international relations, business etc. it seems to have ruffled some feathers here!

ErrolTheDragon · 20/11/2022 16:18

How odd. Times and Guardian rank St Andrew’s above oxbridge now. Pos due to courses like international relations, business etc. it seems to have ruffled some feathers here!

The guardian list should be taken with a very large pinch of salt. The metrics it's based on are not at all robust.

Newgirls · 20/11/2022 16:20

Very possibly but it’s the same criteria that give oxbridge their prestige - same for all

Gummibär · 20/11/2022 16:25

In the latest QS Global Rankings, only Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial make the top 10

ErrolTheDragon · 20/11/2022 16:25

Newgirls · 20/11/2022 16:20

Very possibly but it’s the same criteria that give oxbridge their prestige - same for all

The prestige of oxbridge isn't remotely related to the guardian list.

Croque · 20/11/2022 16:25

O & C are in a league of their own wrt prestige and international recognition. That is not to say that they have the best teaching or attract the brightest students (any more). There has been an effort to try and elevate the reputation of the Russell Group as a whole during the last decade. I would put LSE, Edinburgh and Durham in the second tier and several Russell groups ones below that still. This does not reflect how good they are in reality.

Bath is popular among teenagers these days and I think it was once a poly. Oxford Brookes has gone from being a joke institution to good in it's own right. I don't think much of certain Russell Group members such as Sheffield but they consider themselves prestigious. It is subjective to some extent,

Gummibär · 20/11/2022 16:26

And only Edinburgh is in the top 20 globally!

Gummibär · 20/11/2022 16:27

Whereas Durham ranks much lower globally.

Croque · 20/11/2022 16:27

Imperial somewhere midway between first and second tier and hot sure how to rank medical schools.

Croque · 20/11/2022 16:33

St Andrew’s was considered to be largely irrelevant until recently. My second choice was Durham, none of the London University colleges wowed me.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/11/2022 16:34

Gummibär · 20/11/2022 16:25

In the latest QS Global Rankings, only Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial make the top 10

Wasn't UCL in there too?

needthiswilderness · 20/11/2022 16:34

I don’t think any other uni in the UK is in the same bracket in terms of reputation or, I suspect, quality of learning and experience. I don’t think this is a good thing, but is the reality.

I went to Cambridge and it shocked me HOW different my experience was to my peers’ at RG unis.. the weekly 1 on 1 supervisions with academics in the top of your field, v small tutorial groups - accordingly the work load was also far higher, but I know it did me good to be stretched and challenged. It truly felt like an extraordinary and unreplicable experience for which I probably would have been willing to pay far more than the £12000 or whatever it cost me back in the mid aughts. I hope current students at Oxbridge still get this level of quality, especially now fees are much more expensive. On the flip side, I find it depressing how little bang for their buck a lot of students get at many other universities.

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