Volume of International Students

[Gettingtooldforthis]

Apologies for name change, long term mumsnetter here.

We are evaluating Unis at the moment, I was interested in how many International students there are by Uni & found this:

www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/student-advice/where-to-study/international-students-at-uk-universities

Does anyone know if you can find out how this breaks down by course?

Why?

uniguide.co.uk seems to break it down to subject area, though not specific courses.

I find that universities that are strong in STEM subjects have a lot of overseas students. Although I notice that the Royal College of Music and UAL has a high percentage as well.

It’s the London ones whoa! Imperial and LSE especially. No wonder they are so hard to get into.

Are they including EU students as International?

Because it can be harder to get in as a home student. If a university fills 50% of the places on a particular course with overseas students paying mega£££s then they're going to offer less places to home students paying considerably less!

London has always been the most popular destination. If you're coming to a country wouldn't most people want to live in the capital city?

Don't forget the majority of overseas students are postgrad. Also don't forget they subsidise the courses they home students are on.

Yes EU count as international if they started in 2021/2 or 22/3.

Management is the most popular subject area btw.

Because it can be harder to get in as a home student. If a university fills 50% of the places on a particular course with overseas students paying mega£££s then they're going to offer less places to home students paying considerably less!

Not quite that simple! But yes overseas students hugely subsidise unis. Data is only available by broad subject btw, not individual course.

But they will generally be postgrads not undergrads

It says first degrees

That's really high - if a uni has overall 50% of students who are international (and paying more), presumably those figures are much higher on courses which are commonly taken by international students, e.g. Computer Science, Engineering, etc?

I ask as my ds would like to apply next year for one of those courses (probably Computer Science) at good London uni. Will there be any places left at all for UK students? And if there are, would it be much fun anyway, if virtually all the other students on the course are international?

(I say that as someone who recently did an MA at a top London uni, and about 90% of the students on my course were international - mainly from China, Korea etc. While they were lovely, they weren't really interested in socialising with people from the UK outside of seminars - that worked for me, as I was a mum looking to study not make friends - but it would have been pretty lonely if that had been my undergraduate experience.)

Does anyone know - anyone with dcs in the last year or two at good central London unis?

It has always been that way at London Universities. Way back when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, I was the only British student on my LSE course. Others were from Japan, Pakistan, East and West Africa, Switzerland, Italy, Cyprus, Iran and so on.

Don't worry. If the Gov has its way there'll be a cap on international students.

It'll probably mean courses, maybe even universities, have to close because they're losing money, but at least no one will have to sit next to a foreigner in a lecture theatre.

Why do you want to know? Although, it's a sign of the international reputation & excellence of a degree programme, the friendliness of a university, and its overall good reputation.

You do know that international students subsidise UK undergrads? I hope you're not prejudiced against those subsidising your DC's education.

but at least no one will have to sit next to a foreigner in a lecture theatre.

Or, Heaven forfend! have to listen to a lecturer with an accent whose name is hard to pronounce.

Because it can be harder to get in as a home student. If a university fills 50% of the places on a particular course with overseas students paying mega£££s then they're going to offer less places to home students paying considerably less!

@BalmyBalmes this is rubbish. There are completely separate quotas for domestic and international students. No international student takes the place of a domestic applicant.

And in my experience, international students work harder, are more attentive, learn better (and are more eager to learn) than many domestic undergrads. They are usually resourceful, wonderful people, coming to a strange country with an alien culture, dealing with difficult material in their 2nd or 3rd language - all along with dealing with constant casual or deliberate racism.

When I had an international career I was forever bumping into people I knew from LSE. It was a brilliant network, and LSE societies are strong in lots of countries.

DS, who also went to LSE and who is now in the US is finding the same. He seems to know people at just about every major University.

I go to UCL and it's not surprising that more than half are international students. They're very often wealthy.

I had no trouble getting into ucl on a contextual over, without making the original entry requirements. It's a big enough uni that I don't think British students are actually missing out.

@titchy Is that across all universities?

Is this rubbish? Surely there are a finite number of places on a course, chairs in a room, hours in a day etc?

Also, when I did my MA recently, we merged with another uni part way through and numbers doubled on the course. This had very obvious knock-on effects in terms of lack of space in rooms, reduced feedback on assignments etc - even if you were right that numbers of places for UK students were ring-fenced (which I haven't read anywhere else - do you have proof of this?), that still doesn't mean that larger course numbers wouldn't negatively impact on the course quality and student experience.

THat's fantastic @Needmoresleep I think some UK students or maybe their parents are really narrow-minded - sometimes to the point of xenophobia - about this. A body of international students in a department really adds to e quality of the experience and networking of ALL students.

We run a Masters which is very attractive to international students. I don't teach directly on it, but I went along to see some group presentations about a big community project they all had to do. It was noticeable that the mixed-culture/ethnicity groups were far more creative & thoughtful than the one resolutely white British only group.

Was your/your ds's experience at undergrad or postgrad?

I'm sure this is a positive experience at postgrad. But less sure it's ideal at undergrad, given international students (from my experience) were less interested in socialising with British students!

So to note, this isn't an issue because British students are racist. But because international students, who already have the stress of studying in a foreign language, not unreasonably tend to choose to relax with people they can speak to in their first language!

This is a rather patronising and also faintly racist statement - that doesn't match my experience at all.

On my MA, many of the students came from countries where things like 'Distinction' or 'Merit' wouldn't be understood or valued, so were just looking to get a pass. That was fine for them, but meant they often didn't bother to do more than the bare minimum - because they were only aiming for a pass.

I've also in my work life taught many international undergrads and postgrads English - don't forget that even very bright international students will have an additional language barrier. Unsurprisingly, that can impact their ability to engage fully with or understand elements of the course. On my MA I was often put in groups with international students who, with the best will in the world, just hadn't really understood the readings. My dd did an MA in a different subject last year at a different uni - she said she found exactly the same with the many international students on her course.

And before you call me racist, I'm only second generation British - both my parents were immigrants.

It can be great and it can be a problem. With the big London unis like UCL there is probably space for everyone who is up to it but the London conservatoires are tiny (RCM is about 100 a year I think) that means that if a lot of international students apply there may well be fewer places for domestic students (I think last year there was only 1 domestic piano student at RCM).

Language can also be an issue. My BF did a masters as a mature student and there was a large group of Chinese students. All very lovely but spent all of their non teaching hours together which meant that their English was little better at the end of the course and they were constantly interupting seminars to have terms explained to them which adversely impacted on the amount of time available to actually teach the course.