Volume of International Students

[Gettingtooldforthis]

Apologies for name change, long term mumsnetter here.

We are evaluating Unis at the moment, I was interested in how many International students there are by Uni & found this:

www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/student-advice/where-to-study/international-students-at-uk-universities

Does anyone know if you can find out how this breaks down by course?

It was 30 years ago now, but I did a Management undergrad degree and about 1/3 of the students on my course were international students. Most of them socialised as much as the UK students, a few socialised less. Those who socialised less tended to work harder, and I enjoyed being in project groups with them because I learnt so much more.

I learnt a lot about other cultures from all of them. It encouraged me to do a 6-month placement abroad, and I really wish I'd also done a 6-month study abroad but I stupidly missed that opportunity despite a lot of encouragement from several of the international students.

My kids are at college here in the US where we now live, and there are a lot of international students here too. DD2 shares a room with a student from India, and is close friends with several students from other countries.

Hmmm.. My son is an international undergrad student at UCL. We are originally from India, though we have moved around a lot. This may seem odd to you, but our first language is English, and we are not alone in this. Many students from former colonies of the UK speak better English than British people, and they also have to pass the IELTS to prove that, and then pay double the fees British students have to pay so the unis can keep running... Most international students now come from top IB schools and are educated in English, so this idea that they can't speak English and hang out only with people from their home country is rather outdated. You sound very out of touch.

My son has friends from every country: British, Chinese, Singaporean, Middle Eastern, Indian.... And no, he does not hang out only with Indians: why would he? Actually, his two hallmates are British and apparently never leave their rooms because they are so terrified at having to mingle:) DS meanwhile is out every night enjoying London.

belmama My experience was UG. DS did both his UG and Masters at LSE. In the same way that I was the only British student on my course, he was the only Brit out of 39 on his Masters. I think his UG was about a third British, but it tends not to matter in that quite a lot of the UK students will be first generation or from ethnic minorities. (If you have grown up in the only Chinese family in a town in the Welsh valleys, like one of DS' friends, somewhere like the LSE offers something quite different.) Equally there were overseas students who had been to school in the UK, and quite a large number who had grown up in third countries and gone to international schools.

It is a real advantage to be very interested in your subject as this then gives you common ground with your peers, whatever their background.

Neither I nor DS had any problems socialising. There is a lot going on on campus. DS was considerably more sober than me, and SU societies, rather than clubbing, suited him. In contrast I went to a gig almost every night and helped run Ents.

DD spent her lockdown year on an engineering intercalation at Imperial. She did not have a single British teacher but all were leaders in their fields. She was with a group of European students for her major group project which was a really good experience. Different disciplines (she was a medic, they were engineering Masters students), different nationalities, lots of Zoom and other practical problems like trying to order components from China during Chinese New Year. A Ukrainian friend who works for a small but very international IT firm described as the perfect introduction to real world experience. Time zones, cultural differences, different technical expertise and the need to deliver to a common aim. Even though there was no face to face, DD made some good friends through sport that she is still in touch with, the closest of whom is again not British.

But then DC grew up in Central London and they were used to friends who came from all over. If anything DD found the lack of diversity in Bristol disappointing. Others might find both London itself and the mix of students overwhelming. It is something to think about before applying.

• titchy Yes EU count as international if they started in 2021/2 or 22/3.

Management is the most popular subject area btw.

@titchy Is that across all universities?*

Which bit? You mean the subject? Well no, amongst specialists another subject will probably be the most popular with internationals. But amongst large multi-subject institutions Bus and Mgmt courses will almost certainly be one of the top, if not the top recruiter for overseas students.

Complete uni guide lists top subject choices for international students.

I might add that while LSE and UCL's offers for Economics this year were supposedly Astar A A on their website, every single international student in my son's year has a minimum of 4 A stars and some bright kids from China, Korea, and Singapore have seven A stars at A levels or 45 out of 45 in the IBDP. I dont' think these incredibly bright kids will have a problem understanding the course, at least not in Economics. And I do think they value a distinction.

Oh and none of DS's teachers are British. They are Chinese, Korean, Indian and German.

I'm sure this is a positive experience at postgrad. But less sure it's ideal at undergrad, given international students (from my experience) were less interested in socialising with British students!

I found this, I don't think it's all lovely bubbly harmony. If you're in a foreign country, you're going to gravitate to people familiar to you to socialise with.

Would you prefer that unis close down? Because it is international students subsidising British students for many ( most?) courses.

And I do think they value a distinction.

Of course they do. Almost everyone at LSE was focussed on the next step. DS decided early on he was more interested in an academic rather than a city career, but a first in valuable either way, as is a distinction.

If anything some international students could be accused of working too hard, and hard to learn that sometimes the solution is to think more and to work smarter.

London Universities tend to attract very bright students (whether from the UK or overseas) some of whom are paying a lot to be there. Of course most will work hard. It is also worth noting that not all are super rich. 'Family scholarships' where the extended family helps fund a bright kid to study in the UK are very much a thing. Equally those brought up in third countries are often seeking an international qualification, because residence in the country they grew up in, but where their parents were on work visas, will be problematic.

And if there are, would it be much fun anyway, if virtually all the other students on the course are international?

Seriously?

Well I came to the UK as an international student (Europe), and I guess wouldn't have been much fun

The UniGuide breaks down the % of international students on each course at universities. Just scroll down to the end of the data.

Many students from former colonies of the UK speak better English than British people, and they also have to pass the IELTS to prove that, and then pay double the fees British students have to pay so the unis can keep running... Most international students now come from top IB schools and are educated in English, so this idea that they can't speak English and hang out only with people from their home country is rather outdated. You sound very out of touch.

Thanks for this perspective @LobeliaBaggins I always enjoy teaching a mix of students. And international students are usually the cream of the crop in their home country so I’m lucky to teach them here. I wish I had the command of several languages!

Many students from former colonies of the UK speak better English than British people

And many European students have a better understanding of English grammar than many British students! I'm talking from experience

And many European students have a better understanding of English grammar than many British students! I'm talking from experience

I woulld say it works the other way as well. I think I learned more about English grammar when I was studying French A level.

Or, Heaven forfend! have to listen to a lecturer with an accent whose name is hard to pronounce.

DD had a lecturer with such a strong French accent that neither she nor her friends could follow his lectures. She had to play his recordings several times over to be able to understand them. It isn't being racist to find it difficult to understand a strong accent accent.

Thank you to the posters who answered the question & pointed me in the direction of the Uni Guide.
For anyone else looking to evaluate Unis & courses, the Uni Guide also has data on gender split, attainment level & drop out rate.
By looking at all of this data, I've been able to see that one of the RG unis on the shortlist has a surprisingly high drop out rate. It's a good prompt for me to do a bit more digging to see if I can work out why that might be the case.
The gender split is also interesting, whilst there is a bias for this particular course, the split for some institutions is one sided.

For the other comments, I strongly believe that critical thinking & challenging your own beliefs is incredibly important & something I personally strive for. By jumping to conclusions as to why I was asking the question & inferring my position, can you say the same? This is especially shocking when stated by posters who appear to work in HE.

Theresa May tried capping international students in 2012 and abolishing the post-work study visa. Didn't work out so well as unis could not support themselves, and the post- work study visa was reintroduced after Jo Johnson pushed for it. Now Suella Braverman is trying it again. She will have to backtrack too, me thinks.

I have one ds at Imperial and the other at LSE. They both have a fantastic range of friends from all over the world and very active social lives. Possibly not the same kind of social life they might have at other universities though as when they compare with their friends who went elsewhere it does seem different. Less alcohol or drug based, more to do with societies they belong to.

I would say though that I think it very much depends on the student in question how much they mix with other groups. One of mine doesn’t think twice about trying new things, meeting new people and having a go at just about anything. He has a really mixed group of friends. The other tends to go out with more UK based friends but that could be more to do with the halls he was in to start with and the people he met initially. He also drinks more and is more likely to go clubbing etc. Both grew up in London so would find it odd not to be around a mix of people.

Academically speaking everyone they know seems to be very bright and many of the international students have impressive achievements behind them and are sponsored by governments or companies. I see the work both of mine have to do and am completely in awe of anyone doing it in a second language.

As someone has said, being around so many international students will leave you with an amazing network of contacts for life.

I also have a dc at Imperial and the fact that it's so international really appeals to me (as a parent) as my dc have grown up bilingually and with family abroad - it makes being bilingual and open minded towards other nationalities very normal. They don't 'stand out' or feel awkward/embarrassed about it.

@Gettingtooldforthis

The stats always make interesting reading. I'm wondering which university has the high drop out rate. One particular rg university I personally know 4 drop outs from the same course but they didn't know each other (they are from different bits of my life so to speak) all for the same reason, lack of support

I had 3 at Bristol - undergraduate and just about everyone was a home student for their undergraduate courses. That will not be the same for post grad nor for undergrad in London.

It is useful for parents and teenagers to know the make up on particular courses so they can choose accordingly depending on what they want.

By jumping to conclusions as to why I was asking the question & inferring my position, can you say the same?

Weeeeeell, let's see ...

First of all, you use the noun "volume of international students" rather than "number of international students" which is particularly de-humanising (as well as grammatically incorrect).

Then, there have been regular threads started in this section over several years complaining about the number of international students in the UK. They particularly complain about "taking away" UK students' places, which is wrong for a start. Most universities I know well have separate quotas for domestic and international students. Then there are the complaints about international staff accents, and/or international student 'cliqueyness.'

I could go on.

So, by reason of my past experience, I am suspicious of an opening post which a) de-humanises other human beings; and b) asks only about numbers of international students, without context. But given the dehumanising title and past experience of similar threads and discussions, it was a fairly reasonable inference.

I'm interested in who decides on the quotas of international v home students. Is it the Gov or individual universities?
If, for example, a university can run a course with space for 100 taking into account room/lab availability, staffing etc who decides if they will take 70/30 home /international or 50/50 or 40/60 or whatever?

Universities are autonomous institutions and free to recruit however they see fit.

That said, international recruitment is extremely volatile (the arse could drop out of the China market any second, value of pound changes monthly for example), and the Gov can of course, and apparently wants to, apply its own restrictions on how many student visas they issue.

Balmy, I suspect the University. Quantitative courses always tend to be more international. Presumably both to lower language barriers but also because of better employment prospects.

Based on a talk I went to almost a decade ago the LSE only receive about 10% of their funding from the UK government. The rest comes from fees, research monies and so on. Their survival, and they don't have the great endowments that Oxbridge colleges do, depends on remaining a world class educational and research body. They therefore need to recruit the best staff and best students that they can.

It depends on how you see things. We should either be pleased that our DC have access to top rated departments at home student fees. Or feel frustrated that London Universities are recruiting so many overseas students and feel they should reduce the numbers so more UK students can access their courses. Even though this would mean less revenue, so less money to recruit so lower research revenue and so on.

Thanks snd yes university funding is certainly complex. But it's good to hear they are autonomous and can decide their own student numbers, quotas etc, obviously visas permitting.