"settling" for a uni course- yikes

[piggyinthemiddl]

DS is about to start university this September but I feel he has ‘settled’ for this course rather than looking forward enthusiastically. I feel guilty that I may have had a role to play in it.

Here’s the back story: DS enjoys sciences, is great with people and has volunteered in various care settings. He was struggling to choose between medicine and natural sciences (physics) throughout is A Levels.
He decided to do medicine, scored 3200 on UCAT, and then a few days before the UCAS deadline was up, decided that he’d rather do natural sciences. Abstract problem solving is funner, he said. I panicked, worried at this last-minute change of heart, but did not discourage him as I felt if he wasn’t 100% sure about medicine he should probably not do it.
In the end he ended up applying for 4 natural science places and 1 medicine place (based on a natural science physics personal statement).
I didn't discourage this.

The first huge disappointment was when Cambridge pooled but rejected his application.
He was gutted as he thought highly of the course.
He was offered places in the other natsci courses.
Was interviewed for medicine, rejected and then put on a reserve list with the university saying that they’ll let him know on results day whether he can get a place.
As we approached results day, there were these conversations about how medicine was indeed a great career and he may accept the place if offered. But he wasn’t offered a place and has decided to enrol in the natsci degree.
He has been subdued and quiet ever since the Cambridge rejection.
He does not want to reapply (too much effort) and does not really want to talk about the offers or his decision.
Oh and he scored 4 A*s in further maths, maths, chemistry and physics.
I feel he has ‘settled’ and has lost his umph a bit.
Afraid to talk to him about it as I might just introduce uncertainty when he has already enrolled at Bath and sorted accommodation.
In any case, I’m not sure what he’d want to reapply for if he did reapply. I just hope he won’t end up being disllusioed with his chosen course. Perhaps I should have steadied him when he wobbled over medicine.

Sorry missed this.

Ring Bath and ask if they have space in Maths or Physics departments?

It does sound like he doesn't really know what he wants to do and is flailing around a bit. He might just be putting off being an adult as well. A gap year might allow him to explore his options fully and avoid a costly mistake (so not a waste of a year).

This is very wise advice. The other thing I’d observe is that when parents are very involved and anxious, young adults sometimes retreat from taking responsibility. Your DS needs to be empowered to take control of his own life.

A year out of formal education might be just what he needs. the “maths brain” could be recovered with a bit of cramming in the first few weeks of university or a couple of weeks of working with a tutor before he starts his degree.

I don't know if this is possible but, should a gap year be on the cards,
one avenue worth exploring is whether gap year students can sit STEP papers as independent candidates. Would certainly keep the maths brain ticking over. A part time job could fund regular contact with a maths tutor to go over questions. He might find it fun.

Thank you, all.

What does he read/watch when he is not studying? The Financial Times, stock market trends and house prices, UK politics, US politics, renewable energy. Economics was on the cards at some point before he thought a more hard-science based degree gives a more solid base for management consultancy or policy-making.

Am I over-involved? I don't know. But the panic/anxiety is due to the stress his father is causing, saying his flitting from subject to subject merely wastes time and he needs to move out by October, university or not. That based on his interests natsci is better than engineering.

Can he move to straight physics/maths at Bath? No. He's asked.

From what you say, he's really NOT flitting from subject to subject. At university, it's all knowledge - each discipline has its particular specialist knowledge, but we encourage students to think far more synthetically across individual "silos" of subjects than at school.

Your DS seems really centred on mathematics as a way of viewing the world, and its application in the world - which gets us to physics on the one hand, and economics on the other. The two are not disconnected or different subjects - they are connected by numbers as a way of describing & interpreting the world.

I'm in the humanities, but one of the things I do with my students is teach them a range of research methods & content - some of my teaching would sit very easily in at least 2 other disciplines. It is challenging to students to move out from the quite rigid sense of this subject being different from that subject.

So maybe discuss with your sone what his really bedrock area of intellectual interest is. What couldn't he live without (maybe not so dramatic, but I hope YSWIM!)

His father seems to be being unduly harsh. Can you unpick why?? If your DS takes a year out, does dad think it just 'looks bad'? Or does he have your DS's best interests at heart and doesn't want him to miss out?
From personal experience I can say that turning down a uni place does not cast you out into the wilderness. My DS cancelled Bath on about this day last year, reapplied to them (as a lower choice of the 5 second time around) and got another offer from them!! Unis really don't care and don't hold it against the applicants. Your DS has perfect A level results that will be looked on with interest from ANY uni in the next application round. This must happen to hundreds of kids who (sometimes to their surprise) get stellar results and change their mind. It's nothing unusual.
The world is his oyster now. Don't let his father bully him into something he doesn't want.

Can he reapply immediately to do mathematics and economics at UCL?

Tell your husband in no uncertain terms that he doesn't get to throw a child of yours out of his home while you bare still drawing breath, and that that order to vacate that he took it upon himself to issue is vetoed by you.

Or LSE Econometrics and Mathematical Economics?

Both fantastic degrees.

Completely agree with this

DS had a similar conundrum when originally applying for Uni. He was planning (rather half-heartedly) to apply for NatSci. We pointed out to him that he actually spends all of his spare time looking at engine videos on YouTube and tinkering with his car! He's now starting an Engineering course in 2 weeks time.

With regards your DH, I find there is a male tendency to want a decision to be made and done with but sometimes that means they prefer to stick to a less good decision rather than have to rethink.
I have seen very bright students find it difficult to sustain one choice as they find so much of interest. However your DS is allowed to change his mind especially at this age and for such a key decision. It will cost far less if he starts university and then drops out.

The Financial Times, stock market trends and house prices, UK politics, US politics, renewable energy. The Bath course does allow physics with environmental science but presumably he is not sufficiently interested in renewable energy to want to do it.

I would really encourage him to take a gap year rather than making a panicked decision that could be wrong.

It really doesn't have to be pre-organised, and will not be 'wasted' particularly if he learns some life skills, saves some money, gets some work experience and lets him explore his options in a more measured way.

@mathanxiety Do you mean write to the undergrad tutors from maths and econ at LSE and UCL and ask them if he can join this year?🤔is that possible?

No that won’t be possible for LSE oversubscribed courses.

Agree probably full already (understatement), but next year he could reapply. He has excellent scores in appropriate subjects and his preferred reading shows a deep interest.

He could always phone or email to get as much info as possible before deciding, and scour the websites and course prospectuses. A personal visit ahead of application deadlines would be helpful.

The degrees I've mentioned are excellent foundations for a career.

My background is investment banking (with a Geography degree then an ACA), my husband started off in management consultancy.

Honestly the degree subject doesn't matter for those two careers, provided it's an academic one. Having some relevant work experience on one of the larger firms' summer schemes in your second year at uni is very helpful though.

I took a gap year as a conscious choice as I think it's a positive if you work and/or travel. His grades should give him a choice of almost any Uni and he can take the time to think what he really wants to study.

Looking at their websites, neither LSE nor UCL has an autumn term open day, but they do both have 'virtual' offerings, plus both guided and self-guided campus tours. No need to rush into appying 'immediately', with four months until the UCAS deadline.

applying...

thanks- that's reassuring. sorry if this sounds foolish but how do you go about getting a summer internship? where are these internships advertised? Indeed.com? how does one prepare for this sort of thing? we have no networks or family or friends who have worked in this type of area before so absolutely clueless.

@hop321 I should have also added - what exactly are these larger firms? I'm embarrassed by my own ignorance

you lovely lovely person. such kind words. thank you.

how do you go about getting a summer internship? where are these internships advertised?

The undergrad themselves needs to be proactive about searching out opportunities and getting advice about applying for them. The university's Employment/Careers Service should be the first port of call. Your DC will need to be proactive in visiting the Careers Service, making an appointment, making sure that advisers know them & their ambitions & goals.

In one department where I was HoD, we had the Careers Service colleagues come in at various times from 1st Year onwards. They stress the importance of making contact as soon as possible in your degree, and seeking out opportunities from that first summer vacation onwards.

Many universities also have often funds to which undergrads can apply to help them fund an unpaid placement, if needing to earn during the summer vacation is important.

OP, I am sorry your family and particularly your DS is going through this. With long expertise as a Russell Group STEM admissions tutor and personal tutor, Mitigating Circumstances panellist, etc, I think this is somewhat complicated.

With four A stars, your DS will find his tribe. Right now you and he must balance what I think is his urgent need to take some time to sort his preferences with the reluctance of many in STEM and Economics to allow a gap year; the worry is that Maths skills will be lost.

I have argued, sometimes successfully, against the latter for very high achieving pupils (our offer is higher than AAA) and my view is that the priority should be figuring out what your DS really wants. ‘He now says Engineering or Physics’ (rough paraphrase). Both wonderful fields, but very different. And within the former you mostly have to specialise. What would he choose? To me it still sounds like he isn’t ver clear within himself.

From the interests you’ve listed, I am not quite sure why he isn’t considering Economics, or a Joint Hons programme involving Econ and Maths. An excellent programme in this area is a fine way into the career goals you’ve mentioned.

I did just wonder if maybe your DS was rejected at the pooling stage because a lack of deep intellectual commitment or, much as I loathe the word, passion, was coming through. If his real interests are in the economic area, this makes sense. With four A stars in hand and, as far as we know, AL grading next year back to normal, he should be a good candidate for those of the top Econ Schools that allow gap years, which he would need to research - always mentioning his record.

Of course if he learns more about himself and discovers that his passion is Mech Eng or Physics, that is equally wonderful. The big danger of applying before you know what you want - and every experienced academic has seen countless examples - is that it is more often than not a real struggle to engage, both academically and socially. You don’t achieve what you are capable of. Establishing the very competitive career your DS wants is then difficult to impossible.

The idea that your H would kick a child in crisis out of the family home fills me with a revulsion too deep for words. Having said that, the only way the gap year plan will work is if your DS presents and activates a plan showing he is making good use of the year, including keeping up his Maths. Best wishes to you all.

PS This year, this Board was full of posts concerning DC predicted four A stars who were rejected from all the top Econ Schools. If your DS chooses Econ he will definitely need a safe Insurance choice