Engineering - Sheffield Uni for Sept or reapply to Cambridge?

[niceduvet]

My DS was rejected after interview stage for Engineering at Cambridge for 2022 entry. Last week he found out he had achieved 4 x A* for his A' levels which was what he was predicted so he's very chuffed. His next choice after Cambridge was an Integrated Masters at Sheffield Uni - where he now has a place for this Sept. He's spent most of the summer hols on a voluntary mechanics placement abroad.

A friend (who has a child who went to Oxbridge) has recently commented that she really can't understand why he isn't taking a gap year and reapplying to Cambridge for 2023 entry due to his results. We haven't encouraged this so far as we're concerned that it would be demotivating if he didn't get in again and he'd have to sort out a productive gap year at short notice and study hard again for the entrance exam (which is what he fell down on last time we think by getting an average score). Obvs there are no guarantees but I'm now wondering if maybe she's got a point. DS would probably take a steer from us on this. He was disappointed about Cambridge and is fine about going to Sheffield.

I guess I could understand more if it was politics or law or something else, but do employers really care where you got your Engineering degree from and would a Cambridge Eng degree really give you enough of an advantage to be worth reapplying for? Sheffield does seem like a powerhouse for Engineering and is well regarded.

I know this is a nice problem to have, but would really appreciated some advice here as accommodation deadlines are now looming. Thanks!

So sorry to hear that, @Deeplywailing. It's a very intense environment and not right for everyone. What year is he in? I hope that things will get better for him soon.

Thanks so much everyone this has been so, so useful so far! It's General engineering at Sheffield. He got into Durham and Warwick too, but just preferred the vibe of Sheffield and the amazing facilities too. He wants to try all the types of engineering first before deciding what to specialise in - in Year 3. And he'll definitely do a year in industry too as part of his course.

I think he has made a very wise decision. I just hope mine doesn’t come to regret his decision to apply to Cambridge. The things I am reading here are worrying me.

I can’t seem to DM you, @Anothernamechangeplease . I'd rather not go in to details here.

Don't worry, @CurlyhairedAssassin.
Plenty of people thrive there.

Just to be clear, my company isn’t down on Cambridge. It’s just that it confers no special advantage, like it might in law or politics.

Fair enough, @Deeplywailing. I understand not wanting to share too much.

FWIW, I hated my first term at Cambridge and didn't want to go back. It got better towards the end of the first year, and I loved my second and third years. I look back on it very fondly now and consider it a real privilege to have been there, but I didn't always see it that way.

Hopefully things will get better for your DS, @Deeplywailing. And hopefully your ds will thrive there @CurlyhairedAssassin.

@curlyhairedassassin

Don't start worrying. No engineering grad is going to be unemployed. If your DS was not clear on specialism he's in the right place. That's not to say the OPs DS should give up an excellent offer to reapply there at risk though!

I think when I graduated (,in the days of the BA) somebody made a comment that Cambridge graduates haven't covered the same amount of practical material as others but are usually bright enough to pick it up on the job. Bit of a generalisation but reflects the different emphasis.

Sorry, I'm being thick here, but I'm not sure what you mean.

@ErrolTheDragon
30% firsts IS rampant grade inflation. Years ago firsts were about 1%. Hardly any undergrads knew anyone with a first. Now the vast majority get 2:1 or first and, frankly, it means less.

@CurlyhairedAssassin (Hope I’ve tagged the correct person here!)
I don’t think and MEng degrees prepare students poorly for work. However General Engineering, by it’s very nature, is less specific than other courses. BEng and MEng courses which are discipline specific say that they give accreditation for future professional exams and status as a Chartered or Incorporated Engineer. The General Engineering course at Sheffield is silent on this. There are also some engineering disciplines that are missing, eg Civil and Structural Engineering. The general engineering course tastes a lot but it’s a bit “jack of all trades” etc.

The vast majority of engineeing courses at MEng level spend 4 years on a discipline. They go into it in depth. They then produce grad engineers who are ready to commence work and professional development to become a Chartered Engineer. I suspect the general engineering degree will take a student longer to achieve this. Chartered Engineers earn more.

Schools really don’t understand engineering. Teachers have not studied it. It’s far less clear than becoming a doctor! It’s up to young people to investigate and they frequently have no idea about engineering disciplines. At some point a decision has to be made but working through modules in 7 different areas of engineering seems superfluous to me. DH did Civil and Structural and these days, that is 4 years graft. Industry placements can help but there will be a need to decide what type of engineer a young person wants to be in order to get Chartered (gold standard qualification). It will take longer if they are not with an employer who can provide the CPD necessary or the grad engineer is not as far forward as others due to spending less time on the discipline. Time in the workplace can help with this however. This is why general engineering can lead to DC having other careers.

Yes, I do agree about the grade inflation. If 30% firsts isn't rampant, what would be??!!

Have you seen what they are elsewhere/on other courses?!

you hear so many mixed messages about engineering.

The one thing you hear pretty consistently is that engineers are employable in a range of fields!

Interesting. My son seems to think Cambridge will give him a good grounding in all aspects of engineering and he can specialise later. Would you say you definitely would need to do further qualifications afterwards, then? That’s going to be 5+ years of studying !

He's right. No, he won't need to do other qualifications after the MEng. So long as they choose an appropriate set of options in their 3rd and 4th years, they will get the relevant accreditation for chartered status. DD walked straight into a job after graduating last year, with the company she'd interned for in the second and third summers. Her friends are also working as engineers or in one case something more software based. Of course, like most new grads in anything they learn a lot on the job!

Does anybody have thoughts on best Universities for aerospace Engineering?

My DC is keen on this and I cannot figure out the top universities for this subject?

Thanks !

I think this is your thread? probably best people post there with any thoughts rather than on this one.

Best Engineering Aerospace University's www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/4618584-best-engineering-aerospace-universitys

Unlikely that Cambridge will accept him if they've already turned him down following interview, unless he does something stellar in engineering with his gap year.

The other top uni for engineering is Imperial, so might be better trying there if he wants a higher profile course than Sheffield.

My brother did electrical engineering at Sheffield University, he could walk out of his Job on Tuesday morning & have a better job by lunchtime, his degree has led to him working for IBM & travelling round the world, he started working for Royal Mail after he got married & had a family, he works from home & gets a good salary. He has never been out of work & constantly is getting enquiries to see if he wants to change jobs. Sheffield University Engineering department has some brilliant contacts from F1 teams, British Aerospace, Rolls Royce, Jaguar are all involved in projects at the University.

@ErrolTheDragon

You're quite right! I just checked my thread and saw that people (including you) have very kindly replied.

I thought my thread had disappeared as I didn't get any alerts.

Thank you

Tizerorfizz - I've just done a course search on the Engineering Council's website and it looks as if the Gen Eng course at Sheffield is accredited for CEng status. Unless I'm missing something?

Interestingly the Gen Eng courses require higher entry grades than the single streams - I imagine because work load is higher.

Stick to Sheffield for academic and life reasons. I was devastated to not get in to Oxford due to interview - no prep or support for it - but got in to UCL and fell in love with my friends and the course and living in london. Sheffield is a great city, great course and with those grades he will be fine. The extra curricular stuff is really important too once you’re in the real world of work. My degree was actually ranked higher at UCL than Oxford in world rankings and I’m pretty happy with my well paid career and the lifelong friends and great experiences I had

@niceduvet
Its not clear on their website. That’s very odd in my view. The workload is not higher! These are just modules from other degrees. So look at the other degrees and see what their students cover. It won’t be less!

The grades reflect who they get applying for the course. In the past only a handful of universities offered this degree and people who had not thought deeply about engineering applied. A friend of ours did engineering at Oxford is still clueless about solving problems. as others say, these degrees can be hard maths, but this suits an application to the City firms. Engineers need to think about solutions. Hard Maths alone does not do this.

My DH prior to university had done all sorts of engineering projects and is a born engineer. In the same way some people are born to be vets or doctors. People who don’t know what they want regarding engineering are less likely to stay with it. They tend to gravitate towards a small number of courses and it pushes the entry levels up.

Tou can take as long as you want to decide what sort of engineer you want to be but the engineers should be on a graduate programme working towards Chartered Engineer status. Changing specialisms and not knowing what you want puts engineers in the slow lane and lower earnings.

@niceduvet
Its accredited as attached. Slightly limited as it’s not Mechanical Engineers or Electric/Electrinic engineers.

Hi @niceduvet I'm a research engineer. Very few organisations take grads from just one specialisation. Many will take a number of specialists to build teams from.

Pretty much half the syllabus for any engineering degree is the same, maths, mechanics, stress, structures, materials, systems etc and more maths, and then a bit more maths just to be sure. It's a tough course, we had 26 hours of lectures a week.

I love what I do, and generally speaking the people I work with are incredible and highly motivated. It's a great career choice.

Thanks Ti

Sorry pressed too soon by mistake! Thanks TizerorFizz - food for thought.

It's also the truly interdisciplinary nature of the degree that drew him - and the possible future engineering project management opportunities that might result.

It maybe depends on how ambitious he is. If he wants to fly up the ranks (not everyone does) then definitely Cambridge. My son went to Cambridge to study Maths - it was REALLY tough - very little time for socialising and life in general. But, it has set him up for life and differentiates him. He gets literally every job he applies for and at the age of 30 works overseas earning $350k with another promotion in the pipeline.

His critical thinking and communication skills have been developed to such a high level, I’m sure this is down to the Cambridge environment and opportunities.

Neither myself or my husband have degrees, we are not wealthy, he went to the local schools and college. Cambridge has changed his life. Don’t pass up on literally the opportunity of a lifetime. It’s only now that we are the other side of his degree that we can see everything it offers beyond what we perceived before he began.