Engineering - Sheffield Uni for Sept or reapply to Cambridge?

[niceduvet]

My DS was rejected after interview stage for Engineering at Cambridge for 2022 entry. Last week he found out he had achieved 4 x A* for his A' levels which was what he was predicted so he's very chuffed. His next choice after Cambridge was an Integrated Masters at Sheffield Uni - where he now has a place for this Sept. He's spent most of the summer hols on a voluntary mechanics placement abroad.

A friend (who has a child who went to Oxbridge) has recently commented that she really can't understand why he isn't taking a gap year and reapplying to Cambridge for 2023 entry due to his results. We haven't encouraged this so far as we're concerned that it would be demotivating if he didn't get in again and he'd have to sort out a productive gap year at short notice and study hard again for the entrance exam (which is what he fell down on last time we think by getting an average score). Obvs there are no guarantees but I'm now wondering if maybe she's got a point. DS would probably take a steer from us on this. He was disappointed about Cambridge and is fine about going to Sheffield.

I guess I could understand more if it was politics or law or something else, but do employers really care where you got your Engineering degree from and would a Cambridge Eng degree really give you enough of an advantage to be worth reapplying for? Sheffield does seem like a powerhouse for Engineering and is well regarded.

I know this is a nice problem to have, but would really appreciated some advice here as accommodation deadlines are now looming. Thanks!

He should go to Sheffield. If he got rejected after interview then it will be because the interviewer didn't think he was a good fit for Cambridge. It won't be to do with his grades and nothing will change next year. Well done to him though for his results.

Also, Sheffield is a fabulous place to be a student, much more so than Cambridge. Quite apart from his studies, he’s likely to have a much better social life, and the cost of living will be considerably less.

Thanks so much for all the responses so far. I think with Cambridge being more theoretical and a bit lighter on the practical hands on stuff that may well swing it for him. He loves playing with engines and building machines. Also maybe Cambridge's short terms and intense workload might make it less enjoyable. Any further thoughts welcome.

How did he do in his ENGAA test? My son was predicted, and achieved, 4 A Stars and is taking up his place at Cambridge. He did very well in his ENGAA, almost got the full score, and seems to think this was a major factor in his offer. but certainly wasn’t studying for it for months before, maybe it was 6-8 weeks before that he REALLY knuckled down to it. He had quite a few super curriculars on his application but I’ve heard of others having more and getting rejected. Hard to tell how the interview went as he isn’t very descriptive about such things. He’s not very articulate so I did worry about that part. He is at the top of the year for all 3 of his subjects - I think that is really important because he is at an excellent grammar so position in the year does matter, I think. He is VERY self-motivated, confident in his own ability, and very driven, they definitely look for those qualities.

It has been a very competitive year for these types of courses and plenty of really talented people with 4 A stars didn’t get an offer. It’s hard to know exactly what makes them choose one candidate over another sometimes. My son had Southampton as his insurance (he didn’t put Sheffield much to my horror, as he said it was “too cold” 🤦‍♀️😆) and his plan B was to take up his Southampton place there rather than try again for Cambridge next year. He was of the opinion that STEM knowledge needs to be kept up and practised and he was worried about it being too long a break. i think for Arts courses a year out matters less. Plus, he just wanted to move forward.

Sheffield is one of THE places to go for engineering. If your friend knows nothing about where’s best for which subject then why does she have an opinion? Your DS sounds amazing. Exactly one of those kids who will do well whether he goes to Cambridge or Sheffield. I’d let him go with his gut. If he is set on Sheffield, just tell your friend that. If he is still wistful for Cambridge then would it be worth trying to speak to an admissions tutor and see if it’s possible to look at his application again and why he didn’t get an offer and his likely chances at reapplying . I doubt the reason would be any different to next year, except for sheer extra numbers of students this year.

He loves playing with engines and building machines.
One thing that wasn't clear from your posts is if his Sheffield course is general engineering or one of the specific disciplines eg mechanical?

The civil engineering course at Sheffield looks like it's still in clearing? Can this be right?

I was wondering about the ENGAA too... DD did it in its first year, I think all she did by way of prep was to revise/consolidate her yr 12 maths and physics in the summer hols a bit and do the one sample paper available at the time. Afaik she found it quite fun and did pretty well on it. I'm not sure the OPs DS would necessarily improve his score if he'd not been doing maths in the gap year, and presumably would have already done the past papers.

@fizzythedog
Clearing has closed. Sheffield run several Civil Engineering courses. It’s not entirely surprising if there was one in clearing as we do not have enough young people doing engineering! All the top universities are chasing the same students as this thread shows.

However Sheffield is excellent for Engineering. I assume it’s mechanical. There is no advantage in waiting for Cambridge in my opinion. That could well be a lottery again and, in terms of earnings, doesn’t get you further.

Agree with this

I forgot: DH did Civl and Structural Engineering at Sheffield in the dark ages. It’s always been highly rated for Engineering but it’s hard work. DH is practical. A problem solver. Naturally an engineer. Your DS will enjoy Sheffield.

If he is happy to go to Sheffield, then that's what he should do.

Cambridge is an amazing place to be a student but it really isn't the be all and end all. And I say that as someone who graduated with a Cambridge degree myself but who is very happy to support my (very bright) dd's decision not to even apply to Oxbridge because she prefers the courses elsewhere.

Oxbridge absolutely is not the be all and end all for Engineering. They run general engineering. Most other universities run specific engineering disciplines. Oxbridge do have lots of engineers that don’t end up in engineering. Whatever anyone says! The City is home to many of them because the earnings are so much higher and they mix with many other students who are destined to do the same. If you want a 4 year engineering degree, in your chosen discipline, with very many specialised staff, Sheffield is a great choice.

Bloody Oxbridge

My DS has his heart set on getting in post A Levels

It annoys me that he aspires to it and then if he doesn't get in for whatever reason he won't think where he does end up is worth it, when it very much will be worth it

Oxbridge do have lots of engineers that don’t end up in engineering. Whatever anyone says!

Sure... and a lot who do. https://www.admissions.eng.cam.ac.uk/cambridge/demand

It'd be interesting to see a similar pie chart for other unis - my guess is that all of the good ones inc Sheffield provide their graduates with skills they can take in a variety of directions if they choose. Which is obviously a good thing from the POV of the individual students.

If it's for engineering he really, really shouldn't.

@ErrolTheDragon
Oxbridge has significantly less undergrads doing Engineering than the other leading universities with separate courses. Of course they have a bigger proportion going into City careers! The sheer lack of numbers would ensure the percentage is higher. It’s inevitable. Although Bristol might have DC with similar city ambitions, the huge number of engineers there means the percentage career changing is smaller overall.

@PicketRingFenced
Its really important to look at what type of engineer he wants to be. The best engineering universities are more than worth it. Oxbridge is not best for all sorts of reasons if you want certain soecialisms, eg aerospace engineering where neither university features in the Complete University guide. If he doesn’t know what he wants and just wants to earn money, Oxbridge helps. If he really wants to be an engineer, other universities are brilliant too and are equally prestigious.

What does he want to do?
Your posts don't really express his opinion at all - just the friend's,

If he wants to go to Sheffield he should. It's a risk reapplying to Cambridge. Perhaps he won't get in next year either. Maybe they thought he wasn't a good fit.
And there's an advantage of being one of the very top students in a non-Oxbridge university rather than being one of many. I was rejected by Oxford for chemistry - they fed back to my school (this was a long time ago now, don't know if they still feed back to schools) that they felt I wasn't that bothered about going to Oxford! The school tried to pressurize me into reapplying but I stuck with York which I had really really liked (actually interviewed there before the Oxford interview) and because I was one of the top handful of students on my course I had a lot of opportunities for industrial placements, working with professors in the holidays and even doing some educational outreach. I wouldn't have had that in Oxford where I would have been competing with everyone else who was equally good or better than me.

Sheffield has a very strong reputation for Engineering, and also as a great student city. Plus the cost of living is a lot lower in Sheffield if that's a consideration...

Clearing has closed

At Sheffield, yes, but then the person in question already has a place there, so not really relevant ? Clearing doesn't close (unless every university runs out of places to offer sooner) until October 18th.

Effectively closed if all places are taken!

My husband, himself a mech eng PhD, runs engineering companies. Gritty ones that start out of universities, that he helps bring to a commercial size (at great financial benefit to the employees). He says definitely go for Sheffield. He’d be much more likely to hire someone from there than from most other universities, including Cambridge, as he knows Sheffield graduates have solid hands-on experience. And the engineering tradition in Sheffield is fantastic.
Now if it was my field (biomedical sciences) I’d say Cambridge all the way. But for engineering, outside Imperial, Sheffield is as good as it gets if you’re looking for a traditional “grease monkey” course (DH’s term for himself, not mine!)
Cambridge is obviously superb but given that it would be a massive gamble and he was rejected after interview, my take would be that Sheffield is a better fit. And he can’t go wrong with it.

I want to add: my DS didn’t get into Oxford, despite perfect GCSEs, 4 predicted Astar A levels etc. But he got brilliant offers from elsewhere, and for what he wants to do UCL won hands down. He would actually have declined Oxford for this offer. He did get his predicted 4 A* and couldn’t be happier to be headed to UCL. And when it comes to engineering, Sheffield is just as good. I think your DS will thrive there. “Oxbridge” really isn’t all that counts (except in a small number of careers).
I say this as a Cambridge PhD BTW.

DD has also decided to prioritise UCL over Cambridge, and she isn't going to even bother applying for the latter, despite being an obvious candidate on the basis of grades etc.

She loved UCL in a way that she just didn't warm to Cambridge. This was despite me being a Cambridge graduate and dd always having seen herself applying there when she was younger. Ultimately, she just didn't like the course that was on offer as much as what she liked elsewhere.

Sheffield is a really good university to study that sort of degree. From what I hear these days Cambridge is in the hands of some academic twerps anyway so he’d be better off sticking with Sheffield. A bird in the hand, etc.,

This bloody infatuation with Oxbridge!

Ffs. The point of education is to get a job!