Unis request to raise fees to insane levels

[FlakeSnow]

Fees for 2023 and 2024 are agreed to be £9250. Article below appears to be calling for increase in fees to circa £24k ie on par with overseas students.

Do anyone think this is a remote chance this will happen? My initial reaction is one of horror. (Not read beyond the paywall).

Times uni fees article

I don’t know. I sort of can imagine it though. I can see a time when just the very rich get to go to university.

£24k a year may be justifiable, possibly, as the cost of training practical subject students who have labs and large amounts of contact time each week. No idea how on earth it can be justified for humanities students with 7 hours of lectures a week.

I think something needs to change if universities can't balance their books on the current tuition fees, however raising fees to international rates will make university education seem out of reach for many.

I am not sure what the answer is, but I wouldn't be surprised if the higher education sector undergoes reform in the medium term.

Maybe less going to university, a rise in going to the local university , limited subsidised places for expensive STEM subjects or core courses being taught with centralised on line resources.

Not sure The Times' source on this is terribly reliable.

There has definitely been an obvious planting of stories in the press lately about how amazing apprenticeships are.

We are in a weird situation where if your family is very bad off university does not cost you a penny and if you never earn too much you never pay a penny back (like in the days of the full grant). Whereas if your parents earn earasonable sums even if they never give you a single penny you give a much smaller loan that may not even cover your rent (as in my day - I got a very small minimum grant and parents were expected but not obliged to make it up to the full one).

Given that there's been nothing but a paltry £250 increase in the last ten years what do people expect? If you ran a business where NI, pension and salaries of your employees increased by 5%+ every year (more this year), the tiny amount of subsidy you got for being in London and teaching creative subjects was removed, your energy bills went up astronomically, but you were forced to charge the same as you charged in 2012 - could you remain afloat?

No it won't happen sadly. The Gov doesn't care. Universities will either go bust or squeeze 40 into seminars designed for 20, strip student resources to the bone (can't afford libraries or counselling), take as many international students as they can because frankly they're subsidising everyone and still everything will be our fault.

I think £24k a year would still be cheaper than the US. So I guess it’s conceivable.

Tbh I think we just need a long stint now of a labour government to readdress the balance, we’ve had too long with the Tory’s in power and I say that as someone who has voted Tory in the past.

It seems unlikely given brexit but there are so many areas where I wish we were aligning closer with a European model rather than copying what the US does.

Also though with the current 9k tuition fees and the way the loan systems works the vast majority of people will never pay off their loan. Both me and my DH did STEM subjects and have reasonably well paying professional jobs but we won’t pay off our student loans before they’re written off because the interest rates are stupidly high. The actual number of my student loan is almost irrelevant because the system doesn’t allow me to pay it off.

I can see your point of view - but what is your solution? Somebody has to pay for the education that they receive, so if not students / their parents, then who? The government have made it very clear that it won't be them, but even if that changed you would have to accept higher taxes over a lifetime to pay for it; and in all probability the number of universities / places / degrees on offer would reduce because nobody could justify the level currently on offer.

Really, we need to go back to basics to tackle this. Education is a good thing, but we seriously do not need the number of university / degree educated people that we are producing. Many graduates leaving university now are ending up in exactly the same jobs that they would have had after A levels a couple of decades ago.

I totally agree that increasing costs to the point where only the wealthy can afford higher education is entirely wrong. But much as it may not be a popular stance, perhaps we need to introduce more of a meritocracy - educate the academically best and brightest, in fewer numbers, for the roles that need this form of education, and then that becomes a more affordable proposition for public funding. That does not mean, and should not mean, that there are not other forms of "higher or advanced education", or that having a university education should we considered the first rank or more worthy. And I do recognise that some groups in society will still have advantages in respect of gaining entry due to their position or wealth.

But we are never going to have a perfect system. And it is ridiculous that it is estimated that nearly 60% of UK graduates are in jobs that are deemed to be non-graduate roles. Many will never pay back the debt they have accumulated. And for what? It isn't sustainable to publicly fund 50% of all school leavers to enter higher education when there is no social or economic benefit in educating that many people at university.

If they did, probably virtually noone would pay it back. My understanding is that the vast majority of people won't pay their student loan back at the current level. But I could be wrong). So I'm not sure what difference it would make in practice to individuals. Maybe it would just mean that universities could claim £25k up front from the government. If so, the government will never go for it.

It says closer to. How much closer to?

Someone has to pay for the education

I work at a university and this is exactly it. We’re not the bad guys here.

1% graduate tax, on all UK graduates for their working lives. Would raise much more than current system (not my maths !).
Maybe one day we'll have a government that doesn't just care about the rich (who would hate this as they can afford to fund their kids so no debt).
This is the current minimum doctor debt on leaving Uni, about £88,000. After 10 years of repayments it's gone 'down' to £110,000. We have a bonkers system.

Apologies. Wrong final figure. Should read £120,000.

I suspect that this is in response to Allison Pearson's dreadful Telegraph article demanding that the level of overseas students be capped at 10% in order to get more English bums on seats.

It totally ignores the fact that the overseas students subsidise English places. Those moaning that there are too many foreigners and there need to be fewer should bear in mind that that won't necessarily be accompanied by an increased chance of their DC getting in, and probably a decreased, more expensive one.

State colleges in the US are far more affordable than any increases proposed by the Govt. here. It should be a graduate tax rather than loans if this is the way they want to go.

There is just so much variation in information. The Auger review suggested fees should become £7500. This article in the Guardian here suggested Russell Group unis said they are underfunded by £1750 per student only 4 months ago. And yet today the Times is suggesting an increase to £24k.

It worries me that next years cohort could be heading off without knowing how much the third year (or 4th, 5th or 6th if doin med/vet med) may cost them. Also, what incentive is there to attend if fees are that much. Even medic salaries are paltry for the first 5 years.

I agree with @Quveas. I would support introducing more of a meritocracy. As a consequence though, I suspect this would means lots of unis having to shut up shop, especially the ex-polys.

Someone has to pay for the education

Yup. But I'm quite invested in there being a doctor available when I need one.

And it is ridiculous that it is estimated that nearly 60% of UK graduates are in jobs that are deemed to be non-graduate roles

I dispute that. The majority of graduates are in graduate level activity a year after graduation. Given that their degrees won't get taken away, it's reasonable to assume that even the (?20%) not in grad level activity after one year will be a couple of years later.

most people on plan 2 (and whatever they call new plans) definitely won't - mainly because of the ludicrous interest rates - anything I do currently pay back barely even touches the interest accrued so I'll get to my 35 years and it'll get written, short of becoming a 6 figure earner that is

Then we'll have to pay through taxes or something. It's not the unis fault that's how much it costs.

There are huge social and economic benefits for the individual and society of having a highly educated population.

Not to the Tory vote though....

I wish people would stop parroting the statement that most current students won’t pay their loans off.

It’s true in the sense they won’t pay the entire amount (tens of thousands more than they initially borrowed because of crippling interest)

A good proportion will still pay back more than they initially borrowed and not even touch the side of the final amount by the time it’s written off…

The interest rates are truly horrifying

I can't get my head round why student loans are paid back with such incredibly high interest rates.