Are EPQs worth doing?

[Sarahcoggles]

DS is about to start second year of 6th form. Usual story - bright but lazy - started 6th form with AAA predictions, but now probably more like Cs. He's doing history, geography and French, and wants to study geography at university.

His school offer EPQ but didn't mention it until end of last term, and the kids are meant to choose their topics over the summer, and start doing it next term. They've had very little support and no one seems to be guiding them at all. Annoyingly the other local 6th form did theirs last year so they're all finished.

My understanding is that EPQ gives you some extra UCAS points, which can help with university places, but that it's a reasonable amount of work.

DS is wondering if he should not bother to do an EPQ, and should focus on his A levels more, given that time is limited and he needs to improve his grades.

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on this?

If he is already finding it tricky to get the grades, don't waste time on a EPQ. DD did hers to prove her interest in her chosen degree course, as she wasn't taking any of the subjects at A level. Getting good grades in your core subjects is more valuable.

Mine did the EPQ and I think it was definitely worth it. Extra UCAS points, demonstrates they can do an independent project and they can choose the subject which should mean they are invested in it as it’s an area of interest. Adds an extra onto the CV too.

He doesn't sound motivated enough, so personally I'd advise concentrating on his A levels.

There's no doubt that the concept of the EPQ is a good one, and if done well can be interesting and useful.

My concern is that both history and geography have a coursework component that makes up 20% of the A level, so he's got lots of work to do before the actual exams. He's had a load of work to do over the summer holiday, and while he hasn't exactly grafted constantly, he has spent a reasonable amount of time on it. There'll be more to do when he goes back.

I'm disappointed that his school have left the EPQ so late, it would have been so much better to do it in the lower 6th.

He's started to say that with all the course work he has to submit (by Christmas I think), he thinks his time may be better spent on that rather than the EPQ.

I just don't know what to say when he asks my opinion (other than do some more bloody work, which I'm not allowed to say apparently!)

Hi OP. I think your instincts are correct and he will be better focusing on getting three good grades at A-level.

My DC also did Geography and there is the NEA which is quite a large piece of individual research inc. data collection, statistical analysis / models and a write up / presentation of all this in at least 5,000 words (plus a lot of maps, graphs and diagrams)! I think doing an EPQ at the same time would be too much. Especially if he has the history coursework as well!

At DC's school, they did the EPQ in Year 12 and it was a taught course with 2 sessions per week (if I remember rightly). The first term teaches them how to assess the reliability of sources. They did a few homework essays to practise this. Then the next term is the gathering evidence and sources - writing the proposal and so on. All the footnotes have to evaluate the source they refer to. It's a massive piece of work, tbh. An A star EPQ is worth 30 UCAS points (an A star A-level is worth 56 for comparison).

I do agree with you that the school should not have left the option of the EPQ until Year 13! Makes no sense.

The EPQ can help to get lower offers at some unis, but by no means all, so it's not essential. It gives something interesting to talk about on the PS. My DC talked about it in the Cambridge interview. But most unis don't interview for Geography, so as long as he gets good A-levels, he will have good options. Good luck to him!

I probably wouldn't at this stage, and I'm generally very much in favour of EPQs.
At my children's school the EPQ is supposed to be completed in year 12 leaving year 13 free to focus on A levels, though because of Covid my middle child ended up with his going into year 13.
DS got an A* for his EPQ and the points did count for his course, plus the subject was very valuable in confirming his intended course was something that really interested him, and it definitely helped him get work in his gap year. But it was a great deal of work, and I suspect his A level grades might have been slightly better if he hadn't spent as much time on his EPQ. Overall I think it was beneficial but there is no way I would have wanted the whole thing crammed into year 13 when there is so much else going on.
It doesn't sound like your DS has a burning desire to do it so it could well end up being something of a tick box exercise for him and of minimal value when the time would be better spent elsewhere.

Avoid. DC has just done one in Y12 and it was a huge amount of work. I was cursing her decision to do it! Y13 is a terrible time to do it alongside uni application, coursework, mocks, revision, actual exams.

EPQs are a great idea in the right circumstances, one of my children did one which they really enjoyed and gave valuable UCAS points as they struggled with exams. You have to be self motivated though and crucially my child had the choice of whether to do one or not so there was buy in from the start.

From what you've described I'd be encouraging him to knuckle down with the workload he has.
IMO EPQ is most useful to people aiming for Oxbridge or other interview type admissions processes. It gives the student something firm to get their teeth into and talk about.
If you're scrabbling for UCAS points you really are best focussing on A levels.
That's just my opinion. May be wrong!

In my circle it's been really useful for top up points for places like Nottingham Trent or Liverpool John Moores.

They are a great idea in Year 12, esp for students who will need something to talk about at interview. At this point, I’d just focus on the A levels.

My son did an EPQ as well as the NEA geography project.

I think his EPQ was probably the differentiator between him getting offers from some of the more competitive universities, among his peer group. Not in terms of lower offers but showing interest in his subject for his personal statement (particularly if it's not a subject that lends itself well to work experience).

Not in year 13. It’s a massive amount of work. dS did his in year 12 and most of his year dropped theirs part way through due to workload.

I’ve been reading up on this for dd starting year 12

almost every uni iveread up on says they don’t really take it into account - those that do allow a single grade lower offer

doesn’t seem worth it to me given it won’t replace an A level.

Our school now insists that EPQ is completed in Year 12, as they found that it was too much in Year 13. Most do it, as the extra UCAS points can make the difference to getting a uni place. However, at this stage, it might be better for your DS to focus on his A Levels.

Firstly are you absolutely sure he has a choice. Some schools it's an option, others you have to.
Would I bother? God no. Just focus on your 3 A'level's. Ds1 got his results yesterday. He enjoyed his. But at his interview at Durham they didn't accept EPQ's. Nor Nottingham. So why bother? Why put yourself under unnecessary stress. Worse if they do it late in year 13, when you should be revising, which most schools do, whereas our school they do it in year 12.

Useful to start and have as something to talk about at interview (if they are applying to courses with interviews) DCs did this but then gave up once they had offers which only included a level grades

Except I don't think my son would have had his Durham offer without the EPQ paragraph in his personal statement (there was no interview element for his course). It's not necessarily about a lower offer but the indirect impact of being able to prove a wider interest.

Agree it's a lot of work though,

Not in our experience, neither of mine needed it for their courses and were grateful not to be pushed into it.

My DS had planned to do an EPQ in y12, submitted a good project plan but quickly realised that he was going to struggle with the workload alongside his A level / BTEC study (has ADHD so struggles to keep on track at the best of times). Dropping it was absolutely the right decision for him and enabled him to focus on getting decent grades.

I think if a DC is bright and self motivated and good at being focused and organised, it can be a great thing to do. It’s probably notable though that all the dc I know who completed EPQ were either independent school students for whom it was mandatory, or triple A /A star state school students who were highly motivated, focused and studious.

In all cases the EPQ was done and dusted in Y12. I wouldn’t even consider it in Y13 tbh. Focus on the actual A levels and try and get the best grades possible.

It depends. My daughter started hers in yr 12 but if she’s honest didn’t really do much until yr 13. She struggles with exams so any points she could secure outside the exam hall were worth it. A number of universities reduced their offers on the basis of getting a B or more in the EPQ. For example, both Sheffield and Lancaster unis reduced their offers.
It was a lot of extra work and took a lot of nudging and encouragement, at one point she declared she had given it up. Thankfully with some moral support, she restarted. Was it worth it? For her, yes - without it, we would not have been celebrating yesterday. She’s off to her chosen uni ☺️

My DC also did Geography and there is the NEA which is quite a large piece of individual research inc. data collection, statistical analysis / models and a write up / presentation of all this in at least 5,000 words (plus a lot of maps, graphs and diagrams)! I think doing an EPQ at the same time would be too much. Especially if he has the history coursework as well!

I agree. DD did geography A level. Her NEA included all of the above and was slightly longer than her final year dissertation at university. If he is doing history as well, that is two NEAs, which is a lot of work.

He should not even consider an EPQ, and ignore anyone who thinks he should. They probably don't understand how much work and content is required for one NEA let alone two.

I could've been your DS (a diagnosis of adhd last year explained a lot).

I wouldn't bother with an EPQ, I'm only a few years since a levels and don't know anyone where it made an actual difference.

By focusing on just 3 a levels and hyper focusing the day before I came out with A*AB, got to uni and did a degree and now no one cares or asks what a levels I did.

Focus on the 3 a levels and likely secure a place at uni anyway, the rate unconditional are given out. 3 Cs at A level are good grades and his subjects aren't easy ones.

Thank you everyone, really helpful replies which I'll discuss with DS.

He should not even consider an EPQ, and ignore anyone who thinks he should. They probably don't understand how much work and content is required for one NEA let alone two.

As I mentioned earlier, my son did an EPQ and Geography NEA so I understand the level of work. His teachers wouldn't let them start writing up the NEA until the first term of Upper Sixth so there was no option to get some done over the summer holidays.

It is a lot of work but doable if you're organised. That said, it sounds as if the child in question isn't in that category in which case I'd advise not. One thing I would say about the EPQ is that it's more about the (wretched) log than the end product which does give some scope for flexibility.