Are EPQs worth doing?

[Sarahcoggles]

DS is about to start second year of 6th form. Usual story - bright but lazy - started 6th form with AAA predictions, but now probably more like Cs. He's doing history, geography and French, and wants to study geography at university.

His school offer EPQ but didn't mention it until end of last term, and the kids are meant to choose their topics over the summer, and start doing it next term. They've had very little support and no one seems to be guiding them at all. Annoyingly the other local 6th form did theirs last year so they're all finished.

My understanding is that EPQ gives you some extra UCAS points, which can help with university places, but that it's a reasonable amount of work.

DS is wondering if he should not bother to do an EPQ, and should focus on his A levels more, given that time is limited and he needs to improve his grades.

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on this?

What a load of rubbish. The volunteering is possibly the only useful thing mentioned there.

Yes. I think EPQ is most useful for students who don't otherwise have a chance to show that they can write long reports, for instance maths/science students and intending medics. My DD had more than enough essays in her other subjects including some NEA. She chose to do an extra AS instead from a limited list of non-mainstream subjects, and the school didn't insist that people doing that entered the exam.

Because Gove got rid of most coursework <glares>, few students learn research skills and referencing these days . They then need these skills at uni for most degrees. If done properly, an EPQ teaches this so has good returns later.

My DS regrets doing his but he had two research rich A levels (history and sociology which specifically teaches about research methods). He did spend a lot of time on his but felt he didn't need it in the end as he exceeded his offers anyway. If you are applying a bit ambitiously, and the EPQ gives you a fighting chance, I;'d always go for it (eg an AAB offer being reduced to ABB with a C in the EPQ was one of DS's offers: C in an EPQ was very generous offer!). But there is no point if the additional workload is a chore.

Most sixth form students use their free time in school very poorly, thou, so he probably does have plenty of time. Question is whether your DS has enough discipline to use it.

I agree with the point about NEAs providing similar opportunities for developing research shills etc. All I would say is, the NEA is done as the classwork / homework over a whole term. So it is not 'additional' to the A-level and they are not having to learn new curriculum content on top while they are doing it (if they makes sense)? An EPQ at A star is the equivalent of another half an A-level. It's a qualification in its own right and they have to keep a self-reflective progress log throughout it and present it to an audience at the end. All the footnotes have to analyse the sources as well; there's no just listing the source in the footnotes. And the EPQ is (usually) considerably longer than NEAs, (more like 10,000 words rather than 5,000)? Though lengths will vary of course.

Not all schools do essays for EPQ, mind...

How do kids learn the skills they need for the EPQ? As mentioned dd and some of her friends got unimpressive grades in the EPQ, so obviously don't have the right skills. They did well in their A levels and are going to UCL, Southampton, Warwick (dd) but are going to be behind in their research skills. Dd is doing Biology at Warwick and got A in that, A in maths and B in French. C in her EPQ in a biology topic. How can she catch up with students who got higher in EPQ in the skills she will need for her degree?

To answer some points:

@RampantIvy whilst NEAs in History, Geography and English may use the skills I described earlier, they don't in all subjects.

@Piggywaspushed (hello btw) you are correct. This year out of my 26 students, I had 2 artefacts. Both were very similar and both in their own ways were stunning. Both achieved A* grades. They took huge amounts of time to produce and there was still a 1500 word report to complete. Hand on heart, I would advise a dissertation in an ideal world. However, both the students' artefacts led more directly to their chosen courses and career paths than their A levels and in both cases were the clinching factor onto some very competitive courses.

@MulberryMoon we run EPQ as a taught programme. We walk them through the Learner Record, how to research, how to reference, how to complete a source analysis etc. There are also online courses run by Bath and Southampton Universities that ours have to complete in the first half term that explains all this. Maybe see if your DD can log on and join one of these. They are free and take 8 sessions - no reason why she couldn't do it in a week or two if she was motivated.

Thanks. Ours did do it as a taught course. Not sure what happened. The school appealed the results but with no success

@MulberryMoon My daughter did the HPQ in Y10 which was a mini version of an EPQ and it familiarised her with the project needs eg log, planning, surveying, writing etc. Her school put on weekly skills sessions for a term in Y12 for the EPQ but they clashed with an A level subject so she attended very few. The specification is useful, she used that a lot. There’s a good free course on it on FutureLearn.

Thank you Flake

I don't think DD's school did EPQs TBH. She started her A level curriculum in 2016. She also started with 4 A level subjects, and year 12 nearly broke her. After dropping psychology (which was very content heavy and as dull as ditchwater) after AS levels she concentrated on improving her 3 remaining A level grades (successfully as it turned out). If she had done an EPQ as well she wouldn't have done so well at her A levels.

You are not wrong @pelham4, but I think a lot of posters who think that EPQs are the bees knees forget that some A level subjects do teach the same skills required of an EPQ.

It's a great idea if you have a topic you are passionate about but I wouldn't suggest it for the 2nd year of sixth form as it's a huge amount of work.

PP talking about the EPQ paragraph in the personal statement potentially making the difference between img getting a uni place, and not. How many admission academics read the personal statement?I know a fair few and they all say they don’t read them.

I know a fair few and they all say they don’t read them

I know of several who say they don't read them as well.

Ha, Rampantivy! Not a very scientific study but interesting. I wonder if it depends on the type of university. I imagined “red brick” didn’t bother, but that’s just based on my intel. That’s why I was surprised when pp suggested the personal statement had swung it fir Durham.

From what I've gathered, it more depends on the course. Some courses (medicine, law) need evidence of volunteering etc -- humanities courses like to see that the applicant can write grammatical English. The PS is the only place for that on the UCAS form.

On the other hand, science/maths/economics/etc might well only be interested in exam grades.

On the other hand, science/maths/economics/etc might well only be interested in exam grades.

That was DD's experience when applying for biomed.

Dc1 ended up not getting his predicted/required grades at all and I suspect his Astar in his EPQ helped him to still get his uni place (Russell group). Despite NEA in geo and hist, he felt his EPQ was the best preparation for his humanity uni course.
However he had a topic in his mind quite early on and was looking forward to doing his EPQ.
(He has now finished his uni course...).