Funding for academically excellent students from UK to study abroad

[mids2019]

Four out of 10 UK students are being rejected by elite universities mol.im/a/11110105 via dailym.ai/android.

If the above is true in the DM should we consider funding extremely good students squeezed out of Oxbridge to go to US universities?

We have always had a good system where wealth isn't a barrier to university access but increasingly universities are attracting overseas students with their fees but UK students may not have the financial means to reciprocate this arrangement.

Four out of 10 UK students are being rejected by elite universities mol.im/a/11110105 via dailym.ai/android

So 60% were made offers then? That's brilliant!!!

If the above is true in the DM should we consider funding extremely good students squeezed out of Oxbridge to go to US universities?

Who is 'we'? The Uk taxpayer?

I don't know where that figure came from (it's the DM after all). I hope that is not post A level acceptance 😦

I don't know where that figure came from (it's the DM after all). I hope that is not post A level acceptance 😦

There are fabulous universities in a variety of European countries, and education is free in most of them. Why should the taxpayer (and I’m not even a UK taxpayer right now, so this is not a personal issue) fund these students? Surely they can just go somewhere where they can afford to study?

@pinklavenders

I am going out on a limb and going to say yes in some exceptional instances. A relatively non affluent Oxbridge reject may not have the financial means to consider the US but an affluent US student can consider Oxbridge

Why should the UK tax payer pay for someone to study abroad? They'll probably get a job there and end up living there (and never pay Uk taxes!)

@GrandSlamFinalee

Good point but if you look at international league tables US institutions dominate the top ten.

Yes European universities are free but we do have two of the best universities in the world so do they compete.

UK universities don't have to charge such high fees for international students. That would ensure a more level playing field.

@pinklavenders

Good point about the taxes but won't Oxbridge foreign students return to their host countries and pay taxes there?

@pinklavenders

Surely the likes of Oxbridge could charge 50K per year and still have plenty of international applicants?

I think your idea would work if we had reciprocal agreements with MIT , Harvard etc for fee reduction

I’m also surprised that the success rate is so high.

And for the other 40%, there are excellent universities in the U.K. beyond Oxbridge.

Well no, they could all go bust I suppose that is one option. 🤷‍♀️

The reality is that 99% of academically exceptional students outside of the UK and the US don’t have the means to study at institutions that dominate the league tables.

Are they at a disadvantage for it? No. You can find incredibly talented and intelligent people in a variety of fields that are dominating their industries without having ever studied at a top league table uni.

International students in the UK and the US are those who can afford extremely high fees and living expenses over a period of 3-5 years. AKA rich kids.

More modest students in other countries have to make do with what they have locally and many go on to have incredibly successful careers. A top table league uni is not guarantee of success, nor a requirement for it.

So why can’t UK students consider ‘lesser’ universities too?

Good point but if you look at international league tables US institutions dominate the top ten.

The methodology for international league tables is a joke. They basically ask a load of predominately North American academics which universities they have heard of globally.

I went to college with someone with a very low income family, who was funded through Harvard all the way to PhD (in a humanities subject too!), because she really did have an incredible mind. This was a while ago now, but such funding has certainly existed. I think she was funded directly by Harvard though.

@GrandSlamFinalee

Isn't that though against the current widening participation philosophy? Even Liz Truss wants to mandate an Oxbridge interview for all 3 A star candidates independent if background. Isn't increasing participation hindered by the international intake (as you say probably pretty affluent)

Many courses would close altogether without international students subsidising them. Current levels of choice and accessibility are only possible with this subsidy. The U.K. fee has only risen by £250 since it was introduced in 2012. With current levels of inflation, universities are making more and more of a loss on U.K. students. Slashing international student places isn’t the answer.

WP targets are only aimed at Home students. Admitting brilliant but poor Chinese students for free does nothing for WP.

And if Liz Truss thinks she can mandate Ox and Cam to interview all kids with top grades she'll have to completely amend the Higher Education and Research Act to remove the autonomy of those two universities.

There are plenty of other universities in the uk they can go to though
If everyone got in it would be pointless having to apply

@titchy

If you reduced international numbers at elite affluent universities won't that make room for the excellent but poor UK students that just missed out?

@titchy

Interesting . I thought Liz had said something to that effect.

Parliament can alter law though?

Ox and Cam have very very high entry requirements - they don't want students who 'just miss out'. You're advocating for them both lowering their standards and reducing their income - which is one of the ways they are able to maintain their resource-intensive teaching.