DD17 really struggling with choices

[Maltester71]

Hello

after moral support or ideas!

DD1 has just turned 17. She’s always been young for the year, but also emotionally young I’d say. Missed out on a lot due to the pandemic (year 10/11 heavily impacted) but despite this got great GCSE results (999999988). She was in a state comprehensive and always one of the brightest.

Transferred to sixth form last summer. Is predicted A*AA so again good grades. She studies history, politics and geography. In sixth form, she’s no longer one of the brightest. It’s a selective sixth form, they are all very bright! I think this has knocked her confidence a bit.

the problem is, she doesn’t have a clue what she wants to study. We suggested law and she’s spent a day with a solicitor, which she really enjoyed. She then felt certain that this was a path she was interested in.

we visited two RG universities in July, looked at Law. She liked both. However she resists any attempt to pursue this. So she says she’s ‘too busy’ and ‘overwhelmed’ and doesn’t have any interest in further work experience or short courses this summer. She ‘wants to chill.’

I know she would need to show some commitment to law on her personal statement in order to stand a chance in a RG, especially with last years cohort having deferred with TAGs. We agree on a RG university being important if she wants to pursue a career in law, really, as it seems hard to get training contracts.

I have of course suggested a year out after her A levels. I would prefer she did this, and it would give her time to get the experience for her PS. She has a job where she can pick up more hours, and she’s currently learning to drive and will have her own car. So the year off seems a good solution.

she is however ‘not sure’ she wants to have a year off. Says ‘it depends.’ When I ask ‘what it depends on?’ She replies variously (a) it depends if my friends are going away and (b) it depends if I find a university I like.

I honestly think she thinks she will just apply somewhere she fancies and they will give her a place. Even though I’ve explained this is very unlikely.

I don’t know where to go from here. She will have to go to open days and apply to UCAS in the next few months. If she applies for law, im
pretty sure she will be rejected from all 5 in the current climate. This will knock her confidence further.

She’s driving me ever so slightly to the wine!

any thoughts??

I hope you haven't told her you're "pretty sure" she'll be rejected by all her choices?

Tbh I feel overwhelmed by your intensity just reading your post so I can see how she would dealing with that every day.

It's about what she wants, not what you think is best or your anxiety.

Why did you suggest law? Did you make any other suggestions to help her think her choices through? When someone is unsure what path would suit them it is generally a good idea to explore lots of different options so they can compare and contrast and get a sense of the best fit. That does not seem to have happened here at all?

It comes across like you are very heavily invested in her entering the legal profession whereas she is going along with you rather than being driven to pursue that goal on her own account.

Maybe you should listen to her requests to back off? And stop being so negative.

Maybe an apprenticeship would be a better fit for her than university?

Persuade her to put down a mixture of aspirational, realistic and safe choices. It's actually very rare not to get any offers and those who do have tended to apply for courses with a similar profile and then been surprised to discover that others with similar grades have all also done the same. She only needs 1 or 2 offers. (Having said that, DD's 'safe' choice was the one which turned her down!)

Encourage her to focus on what she learnt from her work experience in her personal statement, along with other things which would support her interest in law. Nobody cares about grade 5 clarinet or D of E.

She could decide to defer or apply again next year if she changes her mind. She could also look at apprenticeships of she is also concerned about going away. Take a look at a range of different unis and consider different subject combinations at open days in case something unexpected sparks her imagination.

If she's not sure about law (and it sounds like she isn't), why doesn't she look at a history or geography degree? Both are well regarded and open up all sorts of options, so study the one she enjoys the most and give herself more time to figure out what she might want to do career-wise.

If that turns out to be law, she can always do a conversion course post-grad, this is just as good a route into the profession as a law degree.

Thanks guys.

she’s been worried for a while that her friends have clear career ideas abd she doesn’t. One wants to be a doctor for example.

it’s fine not to know. I did one degree and switched to another after two years. It was easier to do that back then, the course fees were paid. I also think these y12 kids have missed a lot.

we bought her a Careers book, it was a great book but I don’t think she’s ever looked at it. She seems to prefer Instagram!

I have of course never told her I think she will be rejected. I am though on another forum of patents who are full of stories of their A kids not being offered a single place despite good experience on their PS. So I’m worried that she might have unrealistic expectations of the process. If A kids with great experience in the subject can’t get a single offer, how would she?

can’t say I’m overly invested in the law profession. I’m not a lawyer myself. Careers guy at sixth form originally mentioned it, as it seemed to fit her aptitude/interests, but she didn’t tell me this until we were at one of the open days. I probably came up with the idea for the same reasons he did.

Oooh don’t know why that’s in bold!

i suggested history (she said she’s gone off it, and the degrees study areas she’s not interested in - I know -different degrees include different modules)

Geography - she said no, doesn’t love it enough.

politics -interested to some extent but doesn’t seem interested in the news/real life politics.

also looked at liberal arts - doesn’t like it.

we had thought about the law conversion, but the solicitor she shadowed absolutely put her off and said ‘it’s brutal!’

so she basically came out of her work experience day buzzing about what she’d seen, clear about law, but that’s worn off.

Im wondering if other Y12s are feeling a bit the same

It's the A* thing making it go into bold.

My DD was definitely not a straight A* student, but she's just completed her 2nd year of PPE at Oxford. Sites like WIWIKAU and MN fill up with horror stories and become a feeding frenzy, especially as DC are not used to rejection and blithely assume they will receive offers from all.

I agree with the poster who suggested degrees following on from her A levels. Unis like Exeter allow you to combine lots of different humanities into joint honours.

Cross post! Don't necessarily rule out subjects like philosophy, politics & IR or anthropology. My DD hadn't studied the P P or E at A level from her degree.

Interestingly she looked at politics and IR then read something about that being once of the least employable degrees? Put her right off!

I agree that the WIWIKAU is very alarmist. All the things I’ve read on there suggest nobody has any chance of being accepted onto law unless they’ve attended summer schools and got all sorts of experience

Law conversion isn’t brutal! Honestly, if she’s not sure then let her mull things over in her own time. I’m a barrister, but my first degree was PPE, which I loved. Might she enjoy something like Philosophy? The great thing about the legal profession is that you can come to it from pretty much any degree background.

I work with post grads on dome v high profile grad schemes. Their degree courses feature such gems as Football Studies from Solent & Theology, which would have the forums you frequent clutching their pearls. Degrees in subjects like Pol & IR have a fantastic reputation. I'm very sceptical about employability stats these days.

To caveat that, certain grad schemes are still very blinkered in who they will employ. I tend to think it's their loss & assume that they're probably not that great an employer.

If lots of her friends seem to have a career path in mind, I can see why it might be worrying her that she doesn't. But it's really quite common and at least you're in a good position to point out that it isn't essential, having changed direction yourself.

My advice would be to encourage her to think about what she might enjoy studying for 3 (or 4) years. Forget the 'future career' element and think what excites/inspires her, there is every subject under the sun these days, what can she envisage herself enjoying?

The law conversion is hard work but it’s not brutal, perfectly doable if you’re clever and hardworking. I agree that one of the brilliant things about law is that you can come at it from lots of backgrounds and in many ways it’s an advantage. I did a law degree and it actually put me off law for a while. I went off and did other stuff before coming back to it. I wish I’d done a first degree in something else.

I recommend not going to university (yet). Get a job, volunteer, do hobbies and find out exactly what in life makes her excited and if that's something that could lead to a job which may require going to university then head down that path. Or an apprenticeship. Or just working your way up through work.

Thanks for these constructive replies. They are helpful and reassuring!

I think she should look again at politics and iR and also we spotted PPL, which had a good mix

Regarding a politics and ir degree it does not really look at current political news more theories and ideas
My daughter just completed politics and ir and is on a grad scheme as are most of her contempories so dont let this put her off

I agree with Needmorelego. I was exhausted after A-levels and desperate for a break and a relaxing summer. I got good grades but really didn't know what i wanted to do as a "career". I took 2 years off, did some short courses, worked, earnt money, travelled, explored options and then when i DID apply for medicine at a london uni i felt ready to go back to studying and the world of academia for 6 years. I was SO glad i took that break rather than jumping into something half heartedly then potentialy regretting it or dropping out. All the best to her.

Very wise, harri!

I hope she will take this route.

So to clarify something I don’t understand!

can she apply for law at one university and politics at another?

I mean, I know she can, technically. But if she’s only got one or two ‘law’ applications and other POlitics/IR, does this look as though she’s not committed to law?

this is a question she asked me on an open day and I didn’t know the answer

OP, don't panic. This is really common in year 12. Has she got Unifrog at school? That's great for browsing.

My DS thought about Liberal arts for a while but I think he found it to seem something and nothing. He is now going for social and political sciences.

A few Open Days might spark an interest.

can you make summer schools more of a day out event?

Just go together - look around the city - get the programme and if she wants to attend a few things let her do that.

As a parent it helps I find if you have the timeline straight in your head - if they are not doing law, medicine or oxbrdige applicaiton then things are a bit later - and although they need to do things by deadlines there is still scope for resting before they tackle it.

A lot can happen over the summer when they are that young in terms of what they are deciding.

Degree apprenticeship is an amazing option I think. They are working, and getting a degree.

The other unis won't see her other choices, so applying for a range of subjects won't count against her

This. Though her PS might be tricky to get the balance right.

There is no early deadline for law btw - only Oxbridge and the three flavours of med.

She'll get offers btw. It's very rare applicants get no offers, and tends to happen if they put down totally unrealistic applications - eg Maths degrees with no Maths A level. And often 'no offers' actually means 'have an offer but it's not RG'....

Something with Law might work? Politics maybe?