Oxford / Cambridge - current students support / chat thread 2022

[DadDadDad]

Continuing a thread for anyone who wants to talk about their sons' and daughters' experience being a student in Oxford or Cambridge. (Or nephews, granddaughters, sisters, uncles - or if you or they have now graduated but you want to share your thoughts - all are welcome!)

Some of us on this thread go back to I think to late 2019 when our DCs were going through the admission process. A lot's happened since!

Over to you...

Ah yes, thanks @Scoobyblue i think we’ll be ok. It hadn’t occurred to me they’d have an emissions zone, wasn’t on my list of things to think about when we dropped off ds!

You won't get anything through the post from the official dropping off day. Where necessary, diversion notices were in place and impossible to miss.

@Toomuch999 The ZEZ at the moment is pretty tiny and only really affects St Peter’s., but they are planning to expand it and then it will encompass a lot of the central colleges. I do know a couple of people who have been clobbered for going through bus gates and bus lanes on dropping off day though. It’s a minefield and I have to plot my route in and out quite carefully. And they’re talking about adding more :-(

We got a bus lane ticket on dropping off day…literally missed our tiny turn off and had to go in the bus lane or cause a ten car pile up. And at the end of the day got back to the car which had been reversed into by someone. All we’d need now is an emissions zone fine!! Didn’t even know that was a thing in Oxford.

I must have been very lucky with no fines ever.

On the subject of getting back to cars which have been reversed into, we got back to ours mashed up in a Heathrow car park in August. They’ve had to admit that despite their marketing they in fact don’t have CCTV of their car parks.

Off the main topic I know.

I’ve just spoken to DS. He’s keeping his head above water so far but can’t be said to be enjoying himself.

Apparently his friends who are now 3rd year engineers were told in their first lecture this year to expect to do 70 hours’ work a week. How is this sensible or beneficial???

It's utter madness pantjog. It's not sensible, it can't be beneficial and I can't see how it's necessary. Is this a vanity thing from the engineering tutors?

Tbf one of DD4's peers made the rookie error of asking a tutor how much work they should be doing for Classics Mods and was told pretty much the same. These tutors need to get a grip on young peoples' lives a bit. I don't think they're this nuts across all disciplines/ colleges though.

I've heard from DS today. Some of the example sheet questions are taking longer than he expected (possibly just progression in difficulty from second year?), but he is still getting some downtime. His college got two new cats over the summer, and he sees at least one of them most days.

@pantjog DS is trying to arrange for us to go up for a formal hall, but he said that he's doing 12 hour days....although he has found time to start rowing as several of them are fellow engineers and they have said it helps them keep sane given the workload.

He knew it would be intense, but it does seem even crazier than he anticipated. He's having to cook most evenings as by the time he gets back, the catered option is closing up which he said is exhausting....at least there are a couple of other STEM students on his corridor so he's not cooking and eating alone.

Glad you agree @goodbyestranger and sorry that your DS is working at this insane pace as well @Panicmode1. DS thinks that yes, it’s done by the engineering tutors as a sort of macho thing but also because they think the youth of today are lazy slackers who need to be taught a thing or two.

My DS2 (aged 14) has very similar interests to DS1 (and similar dyslexia etc) and DS1 said he would not advise him to apply to Cambridge.

I know it’s not the same for everyone and I’m sure DS’s dyslexia makes his experience significantly worse — not to mention his college which gets worse engineering results than other colleges. But I read about suicides at Cambridge, hear of various serious mental health issues in the cohort, and feel extremely sad and worried. To clarify, DS isn’t suicidal, thank God, but he’s definitely enduring it rather than enjoying it.

It's crazy. Sorry to hear that he's not loving it @pantjog. I hope that as they get into the rhthym of the year, they will find a way to cope with the workload and start to enjoy it.

I guess it is still early days. DS is now stressing about an internship this summer because 'I won't graduate without one'...I don't think that heaping that amount of pressure on in the first week is a good idea - when we arrived at his college, they took pains to tell us that they now have full time mental health professionals on the staff because it is 'an increasing issue'. Unsurprising with that sort of workload/expectation and pressure in the first week...!

Step away from the internship...

There does seem to be an obsession with securing internships. DD1 has been seriously considering Law as a career, but I am glad to see that now we have watched a load of youtube videos together (they are compulsive viewing; the sheer intensity and focus perfectly normal human beings develop over writing a draft from a template is bizarre. We honestly didn't know whether to snigger or weep for these young graduates who are basically used as batteries to fuel the law firms) she has now changed her mind.

Cambridge can get you so many opportunities around the planet in or out of academia. You'd be mad to lock yourself into a boring career so early. Luckily she has decided to keep up with her foreign language studies (paid for by Cambridge) and is planning on going abroad and see what happens. Now the pressure is off I'm hoping that she will go back to enjoying the wonders and heritage that Cambridge offers.

The workload is crushing, but she says for her subject it isn't hard at all. Just loads of it and all very prescriptive, which she finds demotivating. She finally has a chance to do something for herself with her 3rd year dissertation and seems to have become interested again, but it's something quite novel, so she's going to have to dig in and be proactive regarding the research.

Cambridge is a strange place to study. I think the rarefied atmosphere really teases out academic, mental and social traits in its students and brings them to the fore.

Can I just say that the welfare team in DD's college are fantastic. They put all the support in place that she needed for an SpLD (undiagnosed when she started). They also provide great pastoral care, taking a very pragmatic approach. They listen to her, give great advice (usually telling her exactly what I had already told her, but she ignores from me) and practical support.

For any DC who have the odd wobble, please remind them that the welfare system within the college system is one of the great perks, as they see the students wandering around the place on a daily basis and genuinely want them to succeed.

DD hasn't done any internships, as she has no interest in the bulk of careers they lead to. She worked in college this summer and has the chance to do the same again next year as a gap filled over the summer. In my field around 20% of new grads did an internship to secure a place with big name employers. I know as I'm asking them all!

She will probably give one or two grad schemes a speculative application over the next couple of weeks, but there are no traditional openings into her dream career at the moment (Jacob Rees Mogg I'm looking at you!) She's not going to worry until she has her degree in hand.

DS seemed to suggest that if he doesn't do an internship at some point between now and graduation, he "won't graduate". I can't believe that it is a requirement of an engineering degree that you do one, but maybe I have misunderstood him, or he has misunderstood what was actually said/meant/implied....?

I think that he's got enough on his plate right now to be stressing about it, but he's convinced he needs to do one this summer or next....I just want him to enjoy life a bit before we get into the pressure of graduate jobs etc - he's only just started!!

If the engineering depth is telling students they need to work 70 hours a week, I'd imagine they're quite capable of telling them they have to do internships or they won't graduate. Both sound like bullshit frankly.

Panic, does your ds have a college parent in the third year to talk to and give a bit of perspective? The trouble is I guess that the sorts of students who sign up for college parenthood may be super conscientious types who don't cut any corners either!

I do wonder if there is a vocabulary issue here - internships (i would think of these as voluntary, in the vacations) and placements (part of a course, the dept may help find them)?

@Panicmode1 I'm under the impression that MEng students at Cambridge need to do an industrial placement (usually after the end of 2nd year and before the start of fourth year), the department should help them find one.

@ErrolTheDragon would be able to clarify.

It is worth saying that the depth and breadth of support and adaptations that can be offered to those struggling are in fact enormous, but are almost entirely invisible to the vast majority of the student body. The lack of visibility isn't helped by the fact that everything needs to be managed within the strange matrix of colleges and departments, and the fact that every case is treated as unique is both a strength and a weakness. If help is needed, asking for it does seem to open an almost mystical door to a parallel university where almost everything once thought 'fixed' turns out to be flexible!

DD's DoS is unusual in that they have made it pretty clear from the outset that there is a lot available if asked for, though this may also be because he is aware that DD knows what has been given to previous students.

I think that support is often available but for many students it's an unknown unknown. If you don't know what is available, how can you ask for it?

It took four terms for DS's access arrangements to be properly put into place, because the DRC hadn't completed the process and DS didn't realise that there was another step at the university's end which needed chasing up. His college had been helpful throughout, so he didn't know that there was something missing.

@Panicmode1 i think that your son is right and it is a requirement. I looked at the course page on the website and it says

”You’re required to complete six weeks of industrial experience by the end of the third year, obtained by deferring entry or during vacations. Our full-time Industrial Placement Co-ordinator helps deferred entrants and undergraduates to find suitable placements (in the UK and abroad) and sponsorship.”

so looks like help is available to find something.

I think you're right about the mystique. I often wondered what the DoS was that the Cambridge bunch regularly mentioned. DD doesn't have a personal or pastoral tutor in her college for PPE & it's tricky to know who to ask if you're studying 3 disciplines. We had quite fundamental reasons for needing welfare support in her first fortnight mid peak Covid and they have been fantastic ever since. Each college website will have contact details splashed all over it. They will point the students in the right direction of help 8s needed. They've seen it all before.

Thank you @ironoaks and @scoobyblue.

I spoke to him yesterday and he sounds busy, happy and tired, but less stressed than he was. He's rowing a lot over the weekend, and several of the rowers are engineers, so I think he's going to ask some of the 3rd years. He said everyone is very friendly and helpful, so I'm sure there will be support (and in finding something suutable).