Reapply to Cambridge?

[Mollymalone225]

What are your thoughts on reapplying to Cambridge? DC was pooled and rejected for Natsci (physics) this year. Was predicted 4 A*s, had gold in physics and chemistry olympiads that was mentioned in personal statement. Since then has grown to like maths/physics a bit more than chemistry.

DC has an offer from UCL (natsci) to start 2022 and if reapplying only wants the following 5 (in order of preference)
Cambridge (natsci again- doesn't like Cambridge engineering course),
Imperial (2 courses in engineering- civil and mechanical)
UCL (natsci/physics and engineering).

He only wants to consider Cambridge, Imperial or UCL and I'm really worried that second time round he will get no offers from these places even if he ends up securing 4A*s. Why? Cambridge favours state school applicants and DC goes to selective private school. Imperial/UCL are incredibly competitive and nothing is a guarantee- especially if one takes a gap year, real passion needs to be shown. Given DC is so unsure about physics/natsci/engineering and wants to apply for different courses at each of the universities, I'm not sure a single personal statement can deliver passion for all this. So his statement will probably be natsci-oriented with a splash of engineering related work experience if he secures it. Gap year opportunities in relevant areas are so competitive and rare.

I'm so scared he'll end up with no offers - is it better to take the UCL offer and move on? So worried. Thoughts, advice much welcome. (of course, reapplying only applicable if he ends up getting at least 3 A*s in further maths, maths, chemistry and physics)

sorry- meant to say he was predicted 4 A*s this year. Not 4 As. Also GCSE scores were all 9s (teacher assessed)

I write as mother/wife/daughter of Cambridge Natscis. The application process is totally based on ability as tested in the interviews. If your DS was pooled he was very close, but not fished so wasn’t close enough. They hate gap years in Natsci unless deeply relevant so it would be a further disadvantage. The only reason to reapply is he thinks he has made huge improvements since he was rejected and so there would be a reason why he would make it this time.

Much better otherwise to accept current offer and plan for a postgrad at Cambridge.

Cambridge does not favour state school applicants.

I have never met someone who regrets not re-applying from Oxbridge. I went to a selective independent school and so it's a fairly common situation your son is in. Literally every friend I know who was in this situation says, "best thing that happened". Now of course they can't directly compare their life, but not one has been disadvantaged in their career not enjoyed their time at uni.

I do have 2 friends who both wish they hadn't gone to Cambridge.

So I would advise go to UCL, throw yourself in to your course.

:( unfortunately that's not correct. If there are two candidates with same scores on paper and interview well, the preference is for the state school/grammar school candidate.

love you.

Rubbish.
Recent years the opposite has been true.

would it be viewed differently if he applied for engineering at Cambridge next time round? his preferences are so volatile.

I would tell him to accept the UCL offer and then see what happens on results day.

The 9s are not great currency because they were CAGs from an independent (unfair on those kids who would have got straight 9s but you know, schools are to blame for getting greedy).

The golds are good but again fairly standard for Oxbridge applications.

But then lots of applicants are in the same position with devalued grades so I think the decision should probably rest on the A level results. He probably shouldn't worry about not getting an Imperial or UCL offer with 4A*. Any less than that and I'd advise a DC of mine to be cautious about a re-application for NatSci and to maybe settle for UCL 2022.

I think it's a little unfair to suggest that he isn't good enough because he wasn't fished. That element of the Cambridge system has probably more luck attached to it than any other single element. He's clearly very close.

I also think this idea of oh go there for postgrad is underestimating the challenge of securing postgrad (never mind funding). There's a lot to be said for concentrating on the here and now generally, and letting the future pan out naturally.

DD was in similar position a couple of years ago. She stuck with the offer she had (one of the top unis you mention). She probably is still a bit disappointed about Oxbridge but I doubt she thinks about it that much because she is very happy where she is and doing very well.

What does your school advise?

My rejection was almost 20 years ago now but I do regret not reapplying! I learned a lot through the application process the first time round and I think I would have done a much better interview the second time round (and applied for a different course which would probably have been a better fit). Different situation to the OP’s son though as I went to a comprehensive and was applying for a humanities subject so I don’t think my experience is directly comparable.

I would agree though that going to a different uni can be an amazing opportunity too, the key is to really embrace the experience and throw yourself into it.

Defer UCL offer for 1 year on grounds of doing relevant work experience. Then reapply for Cambridge and if not successful next time, take up UCL offer then?

If the goal in deferring is to get to Cambridge rather than study the the subject then I think that explicit thinking will be alien to the interviewers.
If he does flip to engineering then try to have started a relevant gap year employment and perhaps don't mix Natsci/physics and engineering in the UCAS preferences.

I wouldn't hold close to a belief that Cambridge favours state pupils. It's incorrect and will do you no favours.

That's not an option Abuildingwith4wallsandtmrinsid. UCAS rules prevent it.

If your DC achieves the 4xA* then reapplying is an option. It is possible to apply for different courses at each university using a single personal statement. Cambridge allow for this with their supplementary questionnaire. Durham does too; I don't know about Imperial and UCL. It's worth finding out how much weight Imperial and UCL place on the PS as it seems to vary wildly between universities. My DC discovered that it matters a lot at St Andrew's but Exeter claim they don't read them. I really don't know about the chances of getting offers in the next cycle (my DC applied in the 2018 and 2020 cycles). Good luck to your DC with their decisions and A level exams.

He also can't start at UCL and reapply, because Cambridge won't allow it even though UCAS does.

It is possible to apply for mixed subjects on an UCAS form. I suppose it might also be possible to demonstrate a passion for physics and engineering enough to satisfy the tutors....

Yes I know you have to withdraw a deferred Ucl natsci offer before reapplying through UCAS but it sounds like he needs to actually work out which course he prefers. Perhaps it is actually engineering at imperial or ucl anyway? Why does he not like engineering at Cambridge but likes it elsewhere? Engineering at Oxford no good either?

They are all fantastic universities which are highly competitive so I think he needs to work out whether he prefers engineering or Natsci.

I would go with UCL 2022. He could crack on with learning science that he is interested in, rather than chasing the perceived glory of Oxbridge. There are thousands of exceptional people outside of those institutions, which at the moment are rejecting excellent candidates from independent schools. And the excellence outside those “top two” is only going to increase with more and more rejections like this.

Consider UCL a fantastic no.1 option and plan to get on with that and look forward to it.

I’d take the bird in the hand tbh. DD didn’t get into Oxford this year-despite being predicted 3xA, has an A in her EPQ, tons of supracurriculars and 2x grade 8 distinctions and NYO. She decided it wasn’t meant to be and has firmed elsewhere. We went to an offer holder day and she loved it and is happy with that decision.

Her tutors said that she probably would get in next year but that unless you have a real plan for a gap year, with definitive goals it’s hard to justify and not waste the time. Better to cross the bridge.

I think he should work out what subject he wants to study.

Bit confused. Your post says defer the UCL offer and reapply. That isn't a possibility. You can't reapply while holding a deferred offer it just isn't a possibility since you're on the UCAS system. You have to decline all offers and only then can you submit a new UCAS application.

What was her subject MrsElijahMikaelson1?

OP you say his preferences are volatile. That’s one reason why he won’t succeed at Cambridge interview. They are looking for teachable students who are passionate about their subjects. You have to be to tackle the workload. My DD was more than happy to spend Saturday night on Natsci work. If your preferences are volatile that lack of commitment will show to your disadvantage.

it’s tough as not everyone is ready to decide at 18!

Thanks all. @dizzydizzydizzy @onlywork55 I've not asked school yet and perhaps I should. His not getting a place was a surprise but then there were many other truly brilliant DCs in his school who did not even get an interview (especially at Oxford as they adjust grades). I suppose I have to leave it to him. From a parent's perspective I would tell him to accept UCL and move on. But his own view (I think) is that if he is going to rack a debt of £80k and an interest rate on it at 12% in the current climate, better try for the course you most want and not 'settle'. I dont know how to respond to that one.