Workload at Oxbridge - honest feedback please!

[rhubarba]

Hi - I’ve read quite a lot on here about the workload at Oxford / Cambridge being more ‘intense’ than at other universities. I wonder how much of this is self-perpetuating hype and how much is reality? If you have DC at these universities, are they constantly overwhelmed? How bad can it actually be? I was specifically wondering about social science subjects at Cambridge (DD starting later this year). Do they really have to write three essays per week? Is there time to have a social life? How much pressure is there? Please be honest!

I was going to add, i think it is intense because it is Work hard, Play hard; most people find plenty of time for socialising, JCR, going to the cinema, parties, getting drunk, having boyfriend/girlfriends, maybe an occasional field trip at weekends (eg visiting a friend in another uni). On top of that maybe student journalism, drama, debating, music, sports... I rowed for two years; learned Italian at a free language class, was in an orchestra...rowing alone was a huge commitment of early morning outings along with jogging and circuits and weights.

So ultimately you pack a huge amount in to a very short space of time and if you want to do it all, you become ruthlessly efficient at reading. I quite literally didn't pick up a novel for three years after my degree because I couldnt stop myself skim reading, I stopped enjoying fiction altogether.

Don't worry about your DC getting ahead on reading; it is absolutely not necessary. Just deal with the summer vacation reading list, and nothing further. I literally only knew one person who dropped out due to the pressure, and that came from Family Pressure to succeed (daddy wanted him to live up to the family reputation for being Very Clever). College was amazingly supportive, he deferred and took a year out, returned later and got a 2:1 and lived happily ever after.

I think, if you want an Oxford education, then either give it your all, or ask yourself why apply, because there are plenty of other students who would be more than willing to put the effort in that's required , this includes applications from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Dd1, (Oxbridge), dd3 (Bristol) studied the same subject and dd1’s workload was immense compared to her sister. They have recently graduated and work in finance. Both are coping equally well and dd1 doesn’t fully understand why her Oxbridge workload was so demanding.

@nolanscrack

If it is" the best possible model of undergraduate study",then why havent its Global competitors followed suit...?

Because it is expensive. I would think it ideal if there were an element of continuous assessment, rather than all credit being just on the final couple of weeks of exams.

I can only talk towards maths. For those going into research, the depth and quantity of maths they learn is invaluable. Those joining for Part 3 (the masters year) from other uk universities I think find it a very hard step up. But they come out of that year really well prepared for research careers.

I would think it ideal if there were an element of continuous assessment, rather than all credit being just on the final couple of weeks of exams

There are interesting - and relatively new I think - examples where continuous assessment is now the case.

DD1 (History) graduated a couple of years ago. 1 x 3000 word essay per week, plus a themes and sources piece of work plus something else I can't remember!

Me (30 years ago) English: essay per week (pre-word processors so likely only 1500 words) plus one piece of practical criticism plus one piece relating to either MFL or HEL. I am told little has changed in the intervening years beyond word counts going up due to word processing and easy access to online resources.

The difference with other universities (I have student and professional experience of another 5!) is that students accept that most of their work is formative and not summative whereas in other places students would be surprised to be asked to produce such substantial pieces of work without them counting towards the degree classification. The joy is that you can make mistakes and get feedback without jeopardising your degree directly, so you are encouraged to be brave and take risks.

The reading lists are insane though. I read more each week on my English degree than my DSis read in a term on hers!

DD1 worked 9-5 every day except one, broke for dinner and then did another 2 hours until 9 every night. It was the same in my day - we'd arrange to meet in the college bar at 10 or later. Both DD1 and I had our clubs and societies so weren't completely boring. In fact I regret not having worked harder/ more consistently.

I think one of the challenges in Arts, Humanities and SS, is that lectures are not directly linked to papers, so it does require some forward planning to identify what may be useful/interesting and stick at it even though you might not be supervised on that area for another term or even longer.

Haven't put DD2 off... she's heading there in September all being well.

Not sure if any fellow mumsnetters can acquire the information, but I'd be interested in the reading lists for Humanities, if anyone has a copy please, old lists or recent ones would be appreciated.

@Hawkins001

Not sure if any fellow mumsnetters can acquire the information, but I'd be interested in the reading lists for Humanities, if anyone has a copy please, old lists or recent ones would be appreciated.

What do you need them for?

OP, I’m not sure it’s been mentioned before now, but each faculty will have a handbook where they say the expected number of weekly work hours, and also indicate a number over which students should alert their personal tutor that they’re overworked. For my DD it’s 42 hours she should be working and if she “regularly needs to work over 48 hours per week” then she should alert them. This is for joint honours humanities. She’s found it helpful to stick to that, as it’s made her get faster at writing essays, which is great preparation for exams.

3 of her school friends are studying the same dual honours at other unis and initially she found it frustrating that she had 16 essays in term 1 when they had between 0 and 5! But now she’s set her sights on a competitive Masters’ and feels that her degree is the very best preparation for both gaining a place on it and doing well once she’s on it. She also recognises that life is simpler at her college than for her friends in their halls - everything is max 5 mins walk away, her room is cleaned for her and hot food is always available. She also has much cheaper rent and feels like she’s getting a lot more contact time - much of it 1:1.

I like to do my own study projects and having been to university myself, I still like to learn more in my spare time, and as I know I'll unlikely make it to oxford, the reading lists would be my closest way of achieving a semi unoffical, bit of Oxford studying so to speak.

@DrDetriment

Interesting thread to read, my DS is considering applying to Oxford this year and luckily his 6th form are doing an overnight trip to the open days in June. We’ve been looking at various colleges online to see if one or two stand out a bit more for him to put for actually applying to rather than an open application. Though he knows that having a preference doesn’t mean you get it if you pass the PAT and interviews.
Am curious, do they sit the PAT and other entrance exams at their own 6th form/college or do they have to go to a central location?
He’d like easy-ish access to green spaces and a more modern style of architecture and facilities, so am guessing that St Catz would probably suit him best by what we’ve seen so far. Hopefully he’ll get to view a few colleges in person to have a more balanced view in June.

@Hawkins001

Have a look at suggested reading at Oxford's faculty websites. For example

weblearn.ox.ac.uk/portal/site/:humdiv:engfac:prelims-2:reading/page/ae278f7b-f9db-4861-9321-930f2558d31e?null

@OnePlusOneEquals

Interesting thread to read, my DS is considering applying to Oxford this year and luckily his 6th form are doing an overnight trip to the open days in June. We’ve been looking at various colleges online to see if one or two stand out a bit more for him to put for actually applying to rather than an open application. Though he knows that having a preference doesn’t mean you get it if you pass the PAT and interviews. Am curious, do they sit the PAT and other entrance exams at their own 6th form/college or do they have to go to a central location? He’d like easy-ish access to green spaces and a more modern style of architecture and facilities, so am guessing that St Catz would probably suit him best by what we’ve seen so far. Hopefully he’ll get to view a few colleges in person to have a more balanced view in June.

St Catz definitely has the most modern architecture. He might also want to consider Lady Margaret Hall (aka LMH) as that backs onto a huge park and although it's more 1980s brick than cool 60s concrete, it is more modern than most and incredibly lovely. They have stunning gardens

Thanks @gingerhills yes, that’s one he’s considering too with the fabulous outdoors space available. A ten min walk through University Parks to Denys Wilkinson.
After spending most of his high school and 6th form years having to travel 20+ mins by car or a 45 min bus journey from home to education he’s putting universities with virtually no commute to the top of his list

[quote valbyruta]@Hawkins001

Have a look at suggested reading at Oxford's faculty websites. For example

weblearn.ox.ac.uk/portal/site/:humdiv:engfac:prelims-2:reading/page/ae278f7b-f9db-4861-9321-930f2558d31e?null[/quote]
Very much appreciated thank you.

My best friend went to Oxford and I went to another RG uni back in the 1990s doing the same subjects. She was naturally bright but I always recall her having a similar workload to me.

Just to add, I work in a pretty competitive and well paid profession in the city. Noone cares less if you went to Oxbridge. In fact, there were several friends I know who had 1sts from Oxbridge and couldn't get into some top law firms as they had zero social and communication skills. It's really not the be all and end all. Most companies are fare more focussed on EDI initiatives, levelling the playing field etc.

Most companies are far more focussed on EDI initiatives, levelling the playing field etc.

They weren’t when I started my legal career … Not a chance that I could have crossed the threshold of any set of chambers without Oxbridge on my CV. And even then it took some … manoeuvring.

Delighted to hear things have changed.

DBro was kicked out of Cambridge about 20 years ago when he couldn’t keep up with the work. Had sailed through a-levels, but then got a shock at Cambridge - he loved the social aspect, did loads of sports, and essentially couldn’t do all that and keep up with his workload.

Switched to Imperial and was fine. So it wasn’t lack of aptitude - just couldn’t keep up with the amount of work. He probably has undiagnosed ADHD (I’ve thought that since he was a child and he’s now 40, but he doesn’t want a diagnosis).

I also know someone who was thrown out, despite working hard. Failed the first year exams twice.

An Interesting thread seeing such diverse experiences. Here is my two pennyworth

I was at O (30 years ago) DC1 is in first year reading a social science and DC2 has an offer for 2023. DC1 says the work load is manageable though has found time to row in the college 1st VIII and socialise.

Tutorial teaching is a very particular style of learning that suits some and not others, benefit is huge freedom to explore ideas and concepts. It helps if you are of the disposition to come to conclusions relatively quickly as in the essays you are expected to argue a cogent, evidenced case each week. Short terms are intense- as others have said it is work hard, play hard, certainly was 30 years ago for me. You are though well supported with tutors and the college principle checking in on progress. Quite a lot of late night essay crises, DC is often in the library at 9/10pm just getting started on an essay- that is just normal. But they may have been on the river in the afternoon.

DC1's lessons from the first term; 1) do go to lectures face to face as there isn't time to catch up later even thought they are recorded. 2) allow the last week or two of the vacation to revise for collections - these are college exams most colleges before the start of every term. They don't count for your degree but are good consolidation.

There are different Unis with different teaching styles - really important for each young person to choose one that suits them. The other thing is O and C vary. At O your degree class is dependent on about ten days of exams in your final term of the final year. That is a level of stress that doesn't suit some people. At C I believe the exams each year count.

As others have said progression to good jobs is not dependent on going to Oxbridge.

In Cambrdige maths your degree classification entirely based on 4 exams in the last term.

@TottersBlankly

Most companies are far more focussed on EDI initiatives, levelling the playing field etc.

They weren’t when I started my legal career … Not a chance that I could have crossed the threshold of any set of chambers without Oxbridge on my CV. And even then it took some … manoeuvring.

Delighted to hear things have changed.

It definitely has. I'm sure certain Chambers and Magic Circle have a preference for Oxbridge so it may be a slight leg up an entry point but not a material difference. The world has definitely moved on.

@TottersBlankly

Most companies are far more focussed on EDI initiatives, levelling the playing field etc.

They weren’t when I started my legal career … Not a chance that I could have crossed the threshold of any set of chambers without Oxbridge on my CV. And even then it took some … manoeuvring.

Delighted to hear things have changed.

My friend who went to Oxford became a teacher earning max 45k p.a. I went into law and earn 175k p.a. What does that tell you?

(Well, I was thinking of other factors that made career progression difficult for me, specifically. Wrong sex and race. They tried hard to exclude me but couldn’t deny Oxbridge so had no justification for pretending I didn’t exist.)