Workload at Oxbridge - honest feedback please!

[rhubarba]

Hi - I’ve read quite a lot on here about the workload at Oxford / Cambridge being more ‘intense’ than at other universities. I wonder how much of this is self-perpetuating hype and how much is reality? If you have DC at these universities, are they constantly overwhelmed? How bad can it actually be? I was specifically wondering about social science subjects at Cambridge (DD starting later this year). Do they really have to write three essays per week? Is there time to have a social life? How much pressure is there? Please be honest!

@twaslongago

In the 1980s at Oxford the joint honours in Modern Languages' workload for an 8 week term was 12 literature essays (which would be read out in your tutorials) and 16 prose translations (English to French/German etc). You would also have lectures to attend but these unlike the tutorials at which you read out your essays were not compulsory. It was insane and you had to do all your reading prep in the vacation as there was only time for reflection and essay-writing during the term itself. I hope it has eased off a bit but I suspect it is still pretty bad. I remember a friend going home at Christmas and being incensed that someone else form her state school at a 'redbrick' university only had to submit a couple of essays in her first term. I am sure the internet has made some of these tasks easier to navigate however...imagine having to translate with just a dictionary back then.

8 literature essays per term now, but 32 translations, and more language work. And some tutors still don't like us using online dictionaries!

I read a humanities subject ... We had between 3-6 lectures a week and 1 tutorial. We had to write 1 essay per week, which usually took me a couple of days to research and write, leaving the equivalent of 4 days a week to have fun.

Same for me, in the 80s. (I gather things have changed a bit.) But I liked studying and I was good at writing essays. Would have been a bit daft to apply if those were not things I expected to be doing.

Then I switched to Law. And nearly died of shock. It was rather less fun.

But I don’t think I ever wondered what people were doing at other universities. And I wouldn’t have wanted to be anywhere else, so …

My Master’s (decades later, unrelated subject) at a (not Oxbridge) specialist institution was the hardest thing I’ve ever done.

I did history at Oxford - it was 3 essays a fortnight but no compulsory lectures (plenty of optional ones though). Friends at other unis had 2 or 3 essays a term but a lot of compulsory lectures. The real difference is that the Oxbridge tutorial system never leaves you anywhere to hide - you have to put in the work. Having said that by the second year you have usually developed a good eye for which books on the reading list are good and how to pick out the relevant bits from them. Also, you learn quite quickly how to assemble lots of information and crack out a coherently argued essay in not a lot of time ( i could do it in half a day by the end). It is an invaluable skill for the rest of your life. I always had loads of time for fun as well but came home and crashed for a week at the end of each term which did not please my dear mama.

The other point to remember is that the basics of daily life is pretty easy for Oxbridge students who don't normally have far to commute and can get pretty well everything done for them in college - 3 meals a day in hall etc.

Agree with the poster above. We had 2 essays a week (English literature) but no compulsory lectures. Also remember that if you’re doing multiple essays a week each one is easier- I had friends doing an essay a term but they often counted towards final grades, whereas mine were just something talk about tutorial.

It is absolutely possible to work hard enough and have a social life and have a serious hobby (rowing or drama or something). Just needs a bit it organisation. If you work 10-5, say, that should be easily enough and if it isn’t I would speak to your tutor.

@rhubarba

Many students at Oxford have a quite typical student lifestyle, not everyone has a 'serious' hobby. And plenty of them choose to live out in their second year or third year (or actually have to )

But the workload does seem to be relentless, regardless of subject

It’s intense. Squeezed into 8 week terms. It starts from week 0 - a reading list in Freshers week that makes you really wish you invested in the books for the summer vacation reading list (which you will be assured no one did, but actually everyone SAID they didn’t do it, but actually typically they did). At least three essays a fortnight for a humanities subject. Huge reading lists, you can’t get away with doing nothing if you’re in a tutorial on your own.

Plus all the sports, clubs, social life… it’s a lot.

It’s total immersion in a subject you love, it’s challenging, it’s fantastic.

Some colleges are more academic than others so choose carefully. The work/level of talent to get a First is genuinely very high.

I would recommend it in a heartbeat but it’s not for the faint-hearted.

It's clearly changed. A good friend (at the time) did music at Oxford in the 80s. He had a sherry with his tutor once a week and played the organ in an Oxford church.

That's it, left with a 1st.

I can’t speak for social sciences at Cambridge but I know that doing a humanities subject at Oxford we did several times the volume of work (maybe four or fives times) as at other Russell Group unis. It’s definitely not a myth. Plus you have far more one-to-one tuition so you can’t skip work. But then we also received MAs not BAs. And still found time to go clubbing every week (or rowing if that was your thing). But there’s no doubt you have to be able to handle the mental pressure and I knew a couple of very bright people who dropped out because they couldn’t (and were much happier elsewhere). So, it’s something to be aware of.

I have two cousins (siblings of each other). One did medicine at a RG uni, the other at Cambridge, within a couple of years of each other (quite recently). The one at Cambridge had 3 times the volume of coursework/essays to submit than the one at the RG uni.

In the distant past (30+ years ago) there was an exchange programme in maths between Cambridge and MIT. It was discontinued because the MIT students coming over here couldn't keep up with the intense workload during term, and the Cambridge students who went over there were found to be behind on their return.

Blimey. Obviously I recognise that my experience at Oxford is a long time ago (early 90s) but I do think the workload is pretty subjective, certainly in humanities.

I worked reasonably hard two days a week and spent the rest of the time procrastinating and having a tangled love life. I didn't go to any lectures. At all. In the term of my finals, every day I used to draw a little pie chart divided into eight - I'd colour in a segment for each hour of work I did and my aim was to colour in the whole circle. I never managed to do this.

I am able to fillet reams of information and write a pretty essay very quickly but other than that I left with no particularly useful skills or any knowledge (I'm still pretty poor at the history questions on university challenge). I think I've got the sort of brain that Boris Johnson has (without the revolting politics or lack of morals) and I don't think that's a good thing.

Oh, I got a first. I've not had a particularly successful professional life since. I mean it's fine but absolutely not stellar.

procrastinating and having a tangled love life

Oh God, yes …

(I'm still pretty poor at the history questions on university challenge).

Yup.

Dunno about useful skills or knowledge. People often seem to think I know stuff - being the best informed person in the room was supposed to be the basis of my first career. I do slightly regret not sticking to a subject that afforded exclusively 1:1 supervision - not that every supervisor was hugely inspiring, but the process was incredibly rewarding, looking back. And I wish I’d worked harder.

My son has been sent an email from the (Oxford) college which gave him an offer saying (amongst other things) reading lists will be sent over the next few months (for summer reading).

Interesting read. I don't have any personal experience of Oxbridge but DD2 did a Masters last year at a specialist post-grad school which was exponentially harder work than her under-grad (to the extent of her having to give up a part-time job as she needed to spend her evenings and weekends reading, attending guest lectures etc).

Her course mates on the Masters who had done their under-grads at Oxbridge said the workload was very similar (albeit only for 24 weeks not 52), so that would certainly support the view that Oxbridge study is a lot more intense than elsewhere.

A friend of mine went to Oxford in the 70s to study a STEM subject. The pace was ‘gentlemanly’. In keeping with traditional notions of the place, he had 1:1 sessions with a textbook-writing tweedy don, not a frazzled, slightly older student, as seems to be the case quite often these days. In general, there just seemed to be more time to ponder the infinite back then.

An Oxford admissions tutor told me recently that more is asked of students than at other universities - more essays to write/more problems sheets to do per week.

I do wonder about the current cram-it-all-in culture and whether more is actually better. There’s research showing that people remember what they’ve learnt better in the longer term if they are taught in smaller chunks over a protracted period.

Am I the only one here hoping that the OP's DD actually researched all this for herself before deciding to apply to Cambridge? I mean, given that people believe that there is something truly special and superior about Oxford and Cambridge in comparison with any othe university, surely the time to find out the nitty-gritty of what actually makes that so is sometime before October 15th of the year of application, not post offer, let alone post acceptance?

Given all these people then go on to head up most of our private and public organisations, does the Oxbridge experience not explain some of the work yourself to death long hours culture? Is it really such a good thing? Why not just do the same amount of work in a normal term what does this even achieve?!

@rhubarba

Hi - I’ve read quite a lot on here about the workload at Oxford / Cambridge being more ‘intense’ than at other universities. I wonder how much of this is self-perpetuating hype and how much is reality? If you have DC at these universities, are they constantly overwhelmed? How bad can it actually be? I was specifically wondering about social science subjects at Cambridge (DD starting later this year). Do they really have to write three essays per week? Is there time to have a social life? How much pressure is there? Please be honest!

I've just been watching some videos of the tutorial, system Oxford uses, and yes it does seem some courses will set around 2-3 per week, essays, then their is the reading lists to get through, to prepare for the tutorial sessions, and it's basically two or three people that discuss the work that was previously set.

Bottom line, if your dc are intending to attend, Oxford or Cambridge, basically the priorities are studies and good grades first, no point going if all they want is drinks and party.

Interesting point @Hollyhead !

I found the Oxbridge workload huge and it had a detrimental impact on my mental health - not helped by tutors who were keen on humiliating students during tutorials and a total, total lack of any pastoral support at all from college. I hope things have changed in recent times or at least that my experience is not representative.

Seemingly keen to double down on my mistakes, I then took a job in the City working extremely long hours with a huge amount of pressure, which resulted in a similar impact on my wellbeing.

Some people thrive in these environments though!

There are a few YouTube videos that break down what's expected of students when attending and applying for Oxford or Cambridge. They are worth studying

@Hollyhead

Given all these people then go on to head up most of our private and public organisations, does the Oxbridge experience not explain some of the work yourself to death long hours culture? Is it really such a good thing? Why not just do the same amount of work in a normal term what does this even achieve?!

Because they don't want the best, they want the very best, think the kinds of brains like people in the show town called eureka, how else can science , technologies ect advance,

Interesting no one is asking why Oxbridge continues with this workload,if Harvard and its other competitors dont feel the need for these workloads ,why does Oxbridge?

I was at Cambridge, early 2000s, humanities subject, but with some science crossover. My subject was known for having a high workload for the humanities.

There was a full lecture programme, though after the first year I didn't attend very regularly (too busy with my extra-curriculars). I had about two essays and two supervisions a week, so yes, it was pretty intense. I did a huge amount of extra-curricular stuff too.

I found the eight weeks of intensity followed by taking it easy with a holiday job suited me well, but I did know people who struggled.

Bear in mind, you're not supposed to agonise over the essays, the idea of setting so many is that you learn to write them quickly, as you would in the exams. The term time essays do not count towards anything, they're essentially all practice for finals. I found the discussions in supervisions far more useful in terms of learning than the lectures, reading and essays.

There's a formula to that sort of essay writing and once you've cracked it, you can rattle them off in an hour or two once you've done the reading.

@Hollyhead

Given all these people then go on to head up most of our private and public organisations, does the Oxbridge experience not explain some of the work yourself to death long hours culture? Is it really such a good thing? Why not just do the same amount of work in a normal term what does this even achieve?!

They have short terms because the focus at Oxbridge is more on post-graduate research, so they like to keep the undergraduate teaching window small.

Top univs are tricky for UK students cos international standards have to be reached, and UK schools are at the bottom of the international league.

The workload for a lot of Brits is 90 per cent catch-up.

Of course you don’t have to read everything on the list for every essay.

Weekly papers during terms are standard. 1500 words is short for an essay.

Reading in foreign languages if you’re doing a foreign language degree is standard.

‘Intense’ is making me cackle - I did an intensive course once, total immersion for 3 weeks learning to be fluent in another language with students from the US and Europe. We were in a block hidden from other students doing normal degrees and gazed lovingly at their carefree lives. It was tiring. Worked though.

@nolanscrack

Interesting no one is asking why Oxbridge continues with this workload,if Harvard and its other competitors dont feel the need for these workloads ,why does Oxbridge?

Honestly, in my opinion,it's for the kudos. I saw a huge amount of intellectual snobbery amongst the Oxford academics about how "hard" their subjects were.