Is medicine a good choice?

[Runninghat]

It seems the bright kids at schools drift to medicine as my dd is being steered towards and has an interest in. But doctor friends are so negative about the career at the moment saying they wish they had chosen a different path if they had really realised what a life commitment to stress and studying it was. I would love to hear others views as there is no arguing with an idealistic teen.

I agree goodbyestranger, I know consultants who do a lot of private practice and the hours they spend to get the money.
While it is their choice to do private practice , you can lead a comfortable life on a consultants salary without doing private practice . It is very unlikely you are going to be as rich as someone who is successful in finance / law etc., but if making money is your aim in life , then medicine is a bad choice.

schools encourage bright kids to go down this road without getting them to think about what it might mean for lifestyles

Didn't feel like blinkered pressure to me. Maybe DC went to different sort of school! DD ended up applying for medicine but was also openly encouraged to be a lawyer, mathematician, scientist... That was by school staff who suggested those things. I said "banker" but she rejected that (her 6th form boyfriend was studying to be a banker, himself child of doctors). Lots of high achieving targets. if she failed to get medicine place, her 5th UCAS choice was philosophy & I supported that, too.

If it's honest work, engaging, challenging enough, I'll let DC explore & decide for themselves what they do. My job is to ask helpful questions so they have accurate appraisal what the target job is like.

The posters who are talking about pensions simply don’t understand pension pots and taxation. Loads of doctors retire early to avoid paying tax o.know their pension pots. It’s a well known reading for early retirement. That won’t change unless the taxation system changes

Pretty patronising to assume that doctors don't understand their own pensions.

The current situation with tax and pensions is a perfect storm of the way that the old NHS pension scheme works, plus a relatively recent change to taxation that has already been partially reversed, because of its unintended consequences for doctors, amongst others. Neither of these factors is likely to apply to anyone currently under 40, when they hit retirement age. Even now, doctors typically only retire a few years earlier than the (current) NHS retirement age, and we can expect this number to dwindle considerably in future generations, as early retirement becomes less affordable and less incentivised through taxation.

Fancyaflapjack - exactly what you have said. For me it's about options.
Money certainly wasn't a factor for me when I went to med school and as I mentioned before , I love my work. However when I look at others my age in different career paths (yes comparison may be the thief of joy)- it does make me wonder. And I certainly wouldn't be able to support our current lifestyle without my husband's salary whereas he could manage easily without mine.

Anyway I think all the medics on here have said that if they don't want to study medicine / be a doctor - then don't do medicine. It's not for the faint hearted

Nor are any high pressure jobs for the fainthearted. I'm not convinced that the three DC I have who are currently young lawyers are working under significantly less pressure than two I have working in the London hospitals. It's a different type of pressure, but I think there may be a tendency for medics on these threads to fail to understand the pressures of other professions and to assume that their situation is the most challenging. Human nature I suppose.

Agree with goodbye too. By thirty (20 years ago) I had a six figure corporate salary that was increasing significantly by the year. I worked long and pressurised hours with little work/life balance. I could cope with that and knew it would ease off as I got more senior but what I couldn't cope with was that it all felt soulless and mercenary and I started to hate it. I got out at 37 and never looked back. I love my job now. My salary is decent but not in the realms of what it would have been. I guess it all depends how much money means to you beyond financial security and for me it doesn't mean much to earn more than we need. However, I do feel that it is unfair that doctors' vocations are played on. I don't think they are paid enough for what they do. I also think they don't complain nearly enough about their terms because they are too busy doing useful stuff like saving lives.

I have to say I've never been clear why City law needs to pay quite such ridiculous sums. To my mind its white noise once it gets past a certain figure with the insidious danger of a lifestyle dependent on a silly salary, which means that the option of dialling things down becomes ever more difficult, with a family also used to the lifestyle. So option yes, easy option, not always.

That would have taken some grit opoponax - well done for seeing it through.

@goodbyestranger

Nor are any high pressure jobs for the fainthearted. I'm not convinced that the three DC I have who are currently young lawyers are working under significantly less pressure than two I have working in the London hospitals. It's a different type of pressure, but I think there may be a tendency for medics on these threads to fail to understand the pressures of other professions and to assume that their situation is the most challenging. Human nature I suppose.

Have any of your lawyer DC had to hold someone's severed arm for them?

I don't think anyone is disputing that other professions can be very hard work. It's not actually about hard work at all: it's about the nature of the work, which for HCPs (not just doctors) is materially different from most other jobs. Whether it's therefore more stressful than other jobs depends on the individual.

The point that is being made by the doctors on this thread is that the nature of the job if you are not someone particularly drawn to medicine means that medicine is unlikely to be a good choice for you.

For some reason, some posters on this thread seem desperate to re-cast this as doctors complaining about their lot, or being oblivious to the stresses of other jobs.

FancyAFlapjack no they haven't, unsurprisingly. I think they might ring for back up if a client gave them a severed arm. However you're now merely using gory situations to try to trump the pressure comparison.

In terms of having to deal with very, very, very tough human situations then I would say that one DD who chose to go into Human Rights after training at a Magic Circle firm and being offered a job (ie she took a positive decision to move) has to deal with unbelievably tragic situations, day in day out. And the DD who is a barrister has similarly challenging human situations to deal with. Both meet the human beings who are the subject of the case or, if they're not alive, their relatives, so it's not merely a paper exercise. The barrister DD does do other areas of public law too, which gives some relief from the emotion of these sorts of cases but for the older DD it's more relentless. That said, she finds being able to help in her own way immensely rewarding. There's more to relieving the human situation than sewing back severed arms.

I think you may have just illustrated what I mean about the medics here sometimes not really understanding the nature of other high pressure professions.

All five of those DC work very long hours indeed, which I'd much rather they didn't. But for as long as they like what they do, and given that they're in the summer of their lives....

I completely agree that you have to really want to do any of these jobs and that it's a terrible idea to do them because of any lemming thing (other bright kids rushing off the cliff to med school or law school). That will only end in tears, or worse.

I’ve been reading this with much interest, thank you to all who have given such honest views.
Can I ask a question? My dd doesn’t want to be a doctor, but does want to do something medical or similar. She is inspired to do something she sees as worthwhile and as helping others, as she has a severely disabled sister, and wants to feel like she is making a difference. She is bright, top set, kind, well balanced and thoughtful. What can she do? Any suggestions of a sort of sideways step would be appreciated. I am encouraging her to do something she feels genuine motivation for but will give her a decent salary and good life balance. I often think the best roles are those that are not the most obvious if you know what I mean, but a bit more niche.

@ScarletTulips

Too many peers of my DC were directed towards medicine because it was what their (non medic) parents wanted and what the school thought looked good for them. It has to be a vocation and young people have to go into it with their eyes wide open to the challenges involved. The obsession with extra curricular activities whether it’s Grade 10 Piccolo or running, jumping, rowing for The County does not a good doctor make.

Yes, and makes it harder for those children who don't have privileged lifestyles. e.g. those that have to hold down part-time jobs around their school hours.

@gluenotsoup

I’ve been reading this with much interest, thank you to all who have given such honest views. Can I ask a question? My dd doesn’t want to be a doctor, but does want to do something medical or similar. She is inspired to do something she sees as worthwhile and as helping others, as she has a severely disabled sister, and wants to feel like she is making a difference. She is bright, top set, kind, well balanced and thoughtful. What can she do? Any suggestions of a sort of sideways step would be appreciated. I am encouraging her to do something she feels genuine motivation for but will give her a decent salary and good life balance. I often think the best roles are those that are not the most obvious if you know what I mean, but a bit more niche.

Would something like Occupational Therapy interest her? There are so, so many different paths in OT, from therapy, group work, solving practical issues, helping people get out of hospital, mental health work and more!

I was going to suggest OT or speech and language also for the same reasons. im a paeds nurse and whilst like many of the many medics on here I love my job I’m not sure I’d encourage my child to go into nursing or medicine. I personally would be looking at going into clinical or educational psychology.

@gluenotsoup

I’ve been reading this with much interest, thank you to all who have given such honest views. Can I ask a question? My dd doesn’t want to be a doctor, but does want to do something medical or similar. She is inspired to do something she sees as worthwhile and as helping others, as she has a severely disabled sister, and wants to feel like she is making a difference. She is bright, top set, kind, well balanced and thoughtful. What can she do? Any suggestions of a sort of sideways step would be appreciated. I am encouraging her to do something she feels genuine motivation for but will give her a decent salary and good life balance. I often think the best roles are those that are not the most obvious if you know what I mean, but a bit more niche.

Have a look at Physicians assistant jobs. Anyone with a science degree can apply. She can do a basic science degree and train to be a PA. A lot of hospitals are introducing this job. It is a 37 or so job with fixed working time. Get to help people but not take all the responsibility as a doctor.

Nothing to do with medicine, but in my 20s I was bring paid about £22k to deal with young people with serious mental health issues or who had been subject to horrific abuse. Girls who would self-harm in all sorts of ways. Snuggle knives in and try to stab themselves and you. Hours spent persuading people to not jump off rooftops, railway bridges. Windows smashed. A colleagues ear taken off by a sheet of glass thrown at her. Then in an adult secure unit with seriously unwell people who had done the most horrific crimes. People were doing that for £17k. Some young people did kill themselves unfortunately. People were dealing with this largely unsupported and were on about £17k.

My DH went to a uni that’s never mentioned on here and did Geography and Economics. He did get a 1st though. Within six months of graduating he got an interview on the options trading floor of Credit Suisse. They said, you start tomorrow at 5.30am. He learned on his feet being constantly shouted out by some absolutely hideous individuals, frankly. But after 6 months, his bonus was £100k. They sent him to Singapore and NYC at the drop of a hat. Before the age of 30, his bonuses were £500k, but he hated the work and hated the people. So he left at 30 and was a co-founder of a well known .com which they sold when he was in his early 40s and now he mainly invests and goes a few non-exec directorships. He will be the first to say that what he does is mainly a load of b**ocks and lacks substance, but he has created about 1000 jobs in the U.K. and probably that again overseas. He had no idea what he wanted to go at uni. He thought he’d be an aid worker for a charity.

Had to tell a mother whose child had come in for a minor operation that he had died, totally out of the blue

I've just read back and noticed this. 'Out of the blue' is probably not likely to be an explanation which would persuade a court (or anyone with any degree of common sense, and I hope not the poor mother in question). Somewhere in this situation a doctor or other HCP did something or omitted to do something which cost the child in question his or her life. I know it happens but it's still not great and even worse when there's an attempt at a cover up by the medical personnel or admin in question.

Anaphylactic reaction? undiagnosed congenital heart condition ? Why jump at hcp covering it up without knowing the details?

Notagardener possibly because the red flag phrase out of the blue was used.

@zaeema what an interesting chain of events for your dh. What qualities do you think made him so successful at a young age - I don’t think these things are ever just luck although being in the right place at the e right time helps.

Somewhere in this situation a doctor or other HCP did something or omitted to do something which cost the child in question his or her life. I know it happens but it's still not great and even worse when there's an attempt at a cover up by the medical personnel or admin in question.

And this is just one reason why I’d tell anyone not to bother with medicine these days. Can’t be an Ana reaction that wasn’t known previously, can’t be an underlying condition that wasn’t known/hadn’t been previously diagnosed, had to be medical negligence.

Any op, no matter how simple, is associated with risk. Most of the time in the situation described, it’s minuscule but it’s there. That’s the reality. Don’t know what happened in this situation, but neither does goodbyestranger, and not knowing the details I couldn’t comment so find it very odd they can reach a firm conclusion without any facts.

@zaeema just read about you DH. He had the balls and had what it takes. Kudos to him

Say the death was due to medical negligence - the medic involved has to learn to live with that. There are many doctor suicides because they can't handle the pressure of this and also due to complaints