DD fraudulently living in student flat for five months

[ThoseTallTrees]

DD is 22 and started a masters degree but went part time two weeks into the term.

Since then she has effectively been fraudulently living in student accommodation which she is paying for from a legacy from a grandparent. She can’t live there as a part time student and obviously should be paying council tax.

We have repeatedly talked to her about this but she says she wants to stay the whole year and no one will find out - and that a friend of hers is doing the same.

Personally I’m surprised that one of her other friends hasn’t reported her but so far not. It’s been nearly five months.

Is she going to get away with it? If not, I hat might the penalty be?

I don’t know why you’re so concerned. The other students won’t have to pay this; the debt would be your daughter’s alone and would be 75% of the full council tax. However, if she wasn’t working during this period, she may have been entitled to Council Tax benefit, depending on the amount of money she has left from her legacy (you said yourself it’s running out). They would calculate any council tax benefit she should have been due and reduce the debt accordingly. Even if she had to pay the full amount, it’s not likely to be much more than £1000 for her 70% share. If her tenancy is just one flat in halls, it would undoubtedly be a lot less than this. If she’s currently able to support herself without working, this shouldn’t be an issue. She can always pay back in instalments.

It does seem like you’re not keen on your daughter and would almost be happy if someone shopped her or she was caught. Do you enjoy being in a position to say ‘I told you so?’

@Tranquilitybasehotelandcasino

I don’t know why you’re so concerned. The other students won’t have to pay this; the debt would be your daughter’s alone and would be 75% of the full council tax. However, if she wasn’t working during this period, she may have been entitled to Council Tax benefit, depending on the amount of money she has left from her legacy (you said yourself it’s running out). They would calculate any council tax benefit she should have been due and reduce the debt accordingly. Even if she had to pay the full amount, it’s not likely to be much more than £1000 for her 70% share. If her tenancy is just one flat in halls, it would undoubtedly be a lot less than this. If she’s currently able to support herself without working, this shouldn’t be an issue. She can always pay back in instalments.

It does seem like you’re not keen on your daughter and would almost be happy if someone shopped her or she was caught. Do you enjoy being in a position to say ‘I told you so?’

I don't think that's correct. If one resident fails to be a student it makes the charge applicable for whole property but with a discount for the household.

You’ll get a Council Tax bill if there’s someone in your household who’s not a full-time student, but your household might still qualify for a discount

Dd dropped out and the halls told her that she was liable for rent and free to live there for the rest of the year

As she’s an adult I’d let her crack on but advise her if she does get caught then she will pay for the council tax, not you.

@Halllyup17

Tell her to save the amount of the council tax payment every month, in case she gets slapped with a large bill. Then butt out.

@Halllyup17 - good idea. But if OP’s daughter doesn’t do it it’s her choice.

Is this a block of private flats, or halls of residence?

If she's a part-time student in a private flat, she'll have to pay 100% of 75% of the council tax bill, and council tax is one of those debts that never dies.

If it's halls (and it's not clear from your posts to me), then... I don't know. Because usually only students can live in halls, so I don't see how the council would have previously assessed the building for council tax, and how they'd know how much to charge. I'm surprised she hasn't been turfed out by the university though!

You need to manage your anxiety OP. Don't burden your daughter with your issues. She's got enough on her plate

When you say "part time" masters, do you mean she has switched from a 1 year course to a 2 year course? Have you checked that it doesn't meet the criteria for a full time course (an average of 21 hours study/tuition/work experience per week)?

Is it a private let (ie non-students could rent it) or are they private halls?

If there are 8 of them in the flat, it must have an HMO licence. Some HMOs have council tax bandings for each room, so she would only be liable for her room. If she has a low income, she might be eligible for council tax reduction as well as the single occupancy discount.

www.rbkc.gov.uk/council-tax/discounts-reductions-and-exemptions/part-time-students

If not, it is the landlord who is responsible for paying the council tax for the flat. I would assume that there is something in her contract that covers this situation (ie she has to notify the landlord if she is no longer a full time student), the landlord may be able to recover the cost through the civil courts if she is in breach of contract.

www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201097/council_tax/684/who_pays_council_tax

You can look up the council tax banding for the property online to see if each room has a banding or the whole flat:

www.gov.uk/council-tax-bands

I think you need to look at the contract carefully and get some legal advice. It would be usual that if she moves out before the end of a fixed term contract, she would be liable for the rent until the landlord relets the room. That is going to be hard if the rooms can only be let to full time students, it may not be relet until the start of the academic year. That could cost more than the council tax liability.

It depends on how the apartment block is set up with the council, and if they have access to the local uni database/ list of occupants.
My partner went from full time student to part time in Jan. With the two of us at home (normal house) we got 25% of council tax as I got a single person discount because he didn’t count for council tax. The council wrote to me within a week or two (impressive really), saying they knew he was no longer a full time student and here is the bill for the rest of the year. However I know my council directly accessed the Uni database, because we never had to prove he was a student, we just told them and they said they could make the checks themselves.

It's fairly common. If they got found out - which is unlikely - she would have to pay the whole bill for council tax. It would (unless things have changed) be 75% of the normal amount. As long as she's aware of this risk and happy to sort it out if it happens, that's on her. If she did get found out she'd presumably play dumb and the council tax people would probably be fairly relaxed about it (though they would obviously still make her pay the bill).

I think you need to make sure she knows you won't pay it if she gets found out and then let her get on with it - ultimately it's her life.

You've told her your concerns but it's up to her now to live with the consequences if there are any. I doubt any other students will dob her in though

Happened to my friend at Uni. Shared house and someone dropped out. They all got landed with the bill and had to pay, as the one who dropped out didn’t. It wasn’t just the responsibility of the non-student. Therefore surprised at everyone bashing the OP, as they have a very valid point about a friend reporting the DD.

Thanks @chesirecat99 - the property isn’t clear from the listings, which look a bit odd as though they are from before the flats were built?!

She is now doing 12 hours a week as a part time course.

@ThoseTallTrees

DD is 22 and started a masters degree but went part time two weeks into the term.

Since then she has effectively been fraudulently living in student accommodation which she is paying for from a legacy from a grandparent. She can’t live there as a part time student and obviously should be paying council tax.

We have repeatedly talked to her about this but she says she wants to stay the whole year and no one will find out - and that a friend of hers is doing the same.

Personally I’m surprised that one of her other friends hasn’t reported her but so far not. It’s been nearly five months.

Is she going to get away with it? If not, I hat might the penalty be?

I left my course and got a job after a month as I hated it, stayed in my student house, didn’t pay any council tax for the rest of the year. That was 25 years ago. Nothing ever came of it. Worst that will happen is she’s liable for the council tax and will have to pay it off at an amount she can afford.

My DD remained in a private let over the summer after finishing her undergrad and before starting her Master degree. She got a CT bill from the May until the October which can only have been prompted by someone checking with the University.

It will catch up with your DD eventually and she'll have to pay.

I guess it depends how on-the-ball the local council is? Unless her university regularly send updates about who is still on the course, etc. (which would seem like a data protection issue in itself), she's surely okay until such time as she officially ceases to be a student.

It's a risk but on her own head be it. Is she working if she's now only doing her Masters part-time? If she's not, then she possibly can't afford to be paying potentially £100+ pcm to be living where she is.

I know that DS lived with several final year undergrads when he was a second year. They were horrified to find they were liable for CT the moment they officially finished their final year. I am not sure whether they paid it or not (at least one is an overseas student). It's something that I'm sure many students would be unaware of, particularly if they're from abroad.

@ChocolateDeficitDisorder I beg to differ. I think the students have to send the local council (for every let they move into) a university-generated form which says what year they're in and when they're due to finish. So the council will get all the information they need from that.

Honestly I don’t know the answer.
But I would have thought that student halls are exempt from council tax and because the uni has a policy of only letting to full time students, the council accepts their word for it.

I can’t see the council wanting individual verification of student status for thousands of individuals every year. That would be a huge waste of time and resources as 99.9% of halls residents ARE students. I reckon recouping missed council tax from the remaining 0.1% just wouldn't be worth it.
This is on the university to kick her out, but as they are not doing this (and why would they? They want the room to be occupied and paid for after all) I should expect that she will be able to stay there undisturbed until the end of the academic year.

It's different with renting privately, I know they check with that, but I can’t imagine they do with halls- or at least not more than once a year (presumably in September)

She is now doing 12 hours a week as a part time course.

Do you mean 12 hours attending classes at the university or 12 hours studying?

Did you search the council tax banding using the postcode rather than the address? Sometimes, if a property has been redeveloped so what was originally Flat 1 is now Flat 6 or has been split into 2 flats, the listing is slightly different from the postal address eg the new Flat 6 might be listed as Flat 6, ground floor, to indicate that it is not the same property as the original Flat 6 IYSWIM?

Maybe @SoupGiveMeSoup can shed some light on what happens if there is no council tax valuation for the property?

Surely she would be liable for 75% council tax if anyone finds out? Is that what you are saying? I think halls are just exempt so I don’t know what the mechanism would be for the council to apply it, or even if they would?

That’s not how it works.

OP I’m astounded that so many people on here are telling you it’s none of your business. Do they think you stop being a parent when kids turn 18?
My Mum is in her 80s and if she was breaking the law and putting herself at risk of a fine I’d be sticking my nose in for certain, partly because it would be me paying the fine!

@Dahliasrule

It is the student who is exempt from council tax not the property. My DGD is a student, her partner is working. He pays single person’s rate on council tax. This was done with full council knowledge....lots of forms to fill in. So even if she had to pay council tax the other students wouldn’t have to andit would be at single person’s rate.

That’s not correct. The bill goes to all adult members of the household regardless of status.

The only consequence that could occur is that she gets 'found out' the property then has a liability which only she is required to meet (the others are full time students and therefore exempt), she will be billed. if she pays it , great, if she doesnt she will be chased for the debt. Thats her business and at 22 she will have to manage that.

@Comefromaway That’s not correct. The bill goes to all adult members of the household regardless of status

No, a student is exempt, when I worked in council tax we would remove the name of the student ie a partner in that case etc. Entire houses that were owned and rented out specifically for students were in the name of the landlord with the students listed in the notes and a student exemption was applied as long as we had every student's exemption certificate.

In the case of the grand-daughter mentioned, if the partner doesn't pay the 75% council tax we cannot bill the full time student partner as they are not liable for council tax, hence why we used to remove their name and add it back when their course ended.

Just because a bill is addressed to 2 people does not mean that they split that bill 50/50 between them. They are classed as joint and several in terms of the bill. We can pursue one person for the entire amount. This across the board as this is government legislation ie all the code and procedure policy is the same through every council bar a couple of minor adjustments that are made for areas. There are property exemptions and discount and also people exemptions and discounts. Council tax is 50% property and 50% person based on 2 adults living there.

OP as the accommodation is not a house which I thought it was your DD needs to check her tenancy agreement because it will probably say she needs to be a full time student. They could kick her out at any point this isn't about council tax, this is more urgent.