Law at Bristol or Modern Languages at Oxford (followed by SQE1&2)?

rheafern · 2022-03-04T18:31:34+00:00

Hi, hypothetical dilemma! DD is in Year 12 and wants to study Law. But she knows it's very competitive and it might make more sense to apply for Modern Languages (something she also loves) and then do SQE1&2. But then how would a degree in Law from another good university be and look like? I'm not from this country and I'm not sure about what it really means to have an Oxford degree in your CV. Any views? Thanks very much!

Soggybiscuits17 · 04/03/2022 18:51

I think this is a brilliant approach. I'm in the legal industry and wished I had done exactly that. The SQE really opens the doors to more unique ways of entering the legal arena. Languages will be a huge benefit to your daughter, academically or otherwise; especially if it's her passion..

Soggybiscuits17 · 04/03/2022 18:52

And yes, Oxford would look outstanding on her CV!

AWavyLine · 04/03/2022 19:04

Yes she should go to the best university she can and do a subject she loves.

spacehardware · 04/03/2022 19:07

Not doing a law degree has never been looked down on by good firms (lots of people used to do a honours degree in what they fancied, then GDL then LPC; I did)

Languages are always valued by law firms, most British people are embarrassingly bad at languages and it would mark her out

Bristol is an excellent law school but Oxford would trump it even with a non law degree

Original poster

rheafern · 04/03/2022 19:17

Thanks for the advice! And, yes, that's her passion and also a big strength. She already speaks German and Portuguese fluently (those are the languages at home) and she's doing French A-Levels. I have to admit that I discourage her a bit when she came home yesterday with that idea, after talking to the career advisor in her school. I was looking at it with the lenses of my country where a more traditional route is usually preferred. In the end, she felt that it was probably better to focus on Law; Modern Languages would be a bit self indulging. But I think I'll need to review that!

OP posts:

Original poster

rheafern · 04/03/2022 19:31

Just another question trying to exploring the advantages of doing a Law degree. If you do a Law degree, would you chances to pass the SQE1&2 in the first sitting be probably higher? I know it's all very new, but taking into account how much you need to learn, is that doable self-studying or would you probably have to do a course? If you do Modern Languages, you will probably have to be quite focused to then prepare on your own for the two exams, right? She is focused, I'm just not sure how her life at the time will be like and I guess it does help when you have the structure of a course to keep pushing you. Another question is that I read people talking about students her age being quite aware of what they want to do in Law (barrister, solicitor? family law, corporate law?). She's far from making any sort of decision like that. I think her choice for Law is more to do with the way she thinks and sees the world (very analytical, able to step back), she's also very good at debating, so she has more of what I think are the basic skills. But not any refined knowledge about the profession at all. So with that in mind, would a Law degree help her by introducing her to the different areas for example? Thanks in advance!!

OP posts:

spacehardware · 04/03/2022 19:55

The SQE is so new it is hard to comment; but I know bigger city firms intend to still pay for some kind of training / prep for their future trainees to prepare for it, so I don't think she'd be particularly disadvantaged

Re specialisms - no one knows this in year 12, and I certainly felt no disadvantage not having done a law degree. It's far more about academic law anyway. Most people don't know where they want to end up until they're in a training contract

Original poster

rheafern · 04/03/2022 20:24

@spacehardware, that's reassuring, thanks very much! but would a firm recruit someone from a modern languages background, with no qualifications in Law, and then pay for the course? Do you know how they select the candidates?

OP posts:

Mumsnut · 04/03/2022 20:28

Would she not have to do the conversion course?

Paeonia · 04/03/2022 20:44

@rheafern

Thanks for the advice! And, yes, that's her passion and also a big strength. She already speaks German and Portuguese fluently (those are the languages at home) and she's doing French A-Levels. I have to admit that I discourage her a bit when she came home yesterday with that idea, after talking to the career advisor in her school. I was looking at it with the lenses of my country where a more traditional route is usually preferred. In the end, she felt that it was probably better to focus on Law; Modern Languages would be a bit self indulging. But I think I'll need to review that!

I am not sure about Oxford but in the case of Cambridge admission tutors were taking into account, when I was there, whether the applicant was exposed to the language as a foreign speaker or not, i.e. at home because of a multilingual family. Learning the language as a foreign one was considered more difficult and as such those applicants would be rated higher. These things were usually considered at the interview stage. It may be important to bear that in mind if that's the case in your Dd.

spacehardware · 04/03/2022 20:56

"would a firm recruit someone from a modern languages background, with no qualifications in Law, and then pay for the course?"

Yes, depending on the person.

spacehardware · 04/03/2022 20:59

Law firms recruit trainees through a combination of vac schemes and direct application for training contract - currently usually in second year at uni but also beyond that. She should apply for vac schemes as soon as she's in uni. Whilst my firm ostensibly recruits trainees through direct applications most successful candidates did a vac scheme

spacehardware · 04/03/2022 21:00

That said I didn't even get an interview with my firm and I joined them at 5 yard PQE instead. There's always a way

Original poster

rheafern · 04/03/2022 21:04

@Paeonia, yes, thanks for mentioning it. We have heard about that. She chose French as one of her A-Levels so she could show that ability to learn other languages too (although it's clearly easier for someone like her!). She said she would be interested in learning Arabic and French at university, for example. This would hopefully level the ground for her a bit. But maybe not!? I suppose the fact that she has the languages at home does put her at a disadvantage but hopefully she'll be able to show that she made a big effort as well to keep up with it all and be really fluent. But we will need to consider it all carefully.

OP posts:

Roses1221 · 04/03/2022 21:14

I believe that some Law degrees will include the SQE prep, an integrated approach. This may reduce the need for the SQE prep course post degree (of course people can have a shot at the SQE with no prep course!).

Language skills would be a huge benefit to a legal career (though it sounds like she already has these!)

I’d err against not applying based on worries about how competitive it is. She might be the strongest candidate for all we know! If she is really worried, could she do 4x Law choices and 1x Languages. She’d need to be really sure on her course choice for Languages though.

Original poster

rheafern · 04/03/2022 21:46

@Roses1221 , that's a great idea. She could choose for example French and Arabic at Oxford and maybe Law at Bristol, Durham, Cambridge and another one...

OP posts:

SeasonFinale · 04/03/2022 21:53

@Mumsnut

Would she not have to do the conversion course?

No this is phased out and is being replaced by SQE1 which even law degree candidates will take but should need less preparation and there is a move to include the prep in the law degree to enable law candidates to take it straightaway. SQE2 will replace LPC

MarchingFrogs · 04/03/2022 22:16

[quote rheafern]@Roses1221 , that's a great idea. She could choose for example French and Arabic at Oxford and maybe Law at Bristol, Durham, Cambridge and another one...[/quote]
She can apply either to Oxford or Cambridge, not both.

cafedesreves · 04/03/2022 22:17

Definitely modern languages!! Oxford has an amazing law society. I studied ML at Oxford and have lots of lawyer friends, and my sister did and is now on a training scheme with a top law firm.

cafedesreves · 04/03/2022 22:17

Sorry sister did Classics

MarchingFrogs · 04/03/2022 22:25

At some universities, it is possible to study joint honours law and a language, if this is something that would be of interest?

ghislaine · 04/03/2022 22:27

Has she thought about a combined law and languages degree? For example, Queen Mary offers a four year programme: 2 years study in England and 2 years study in France resulting in dual qualification in England & Wales and France. I’m sure there are other similar programmes elsewhere: www.qmul.ac.uk/undergraduate/coursefinder/courses/2022/english-and-french-law/

Original poster

rheafern · 04/03/2022 23:23

@cafedesreves

Definitely modern languages!! Oxford has an amazing law society. I studied ML at Oxford and have lots of lawyer friends, and my sister did and is now on a training scheme with a top law firm.

Gosh, so much homework for myself to do! Thanks!

OP posts:

Original poster

rheafern · 04/03/2022 23:28

@cafedesreves

Definitely modern languages!! Oxford has an amazing law society. I studied ML at Oxford and have lots of lawyer friends, and my sister did and is now on a training scheme with a top law firm.

Great to know! Would you say, @cafedesreves, that the fact that DD learned two foreign languages at home could count against her? Were most of the students you met learning foreign languages for the first time? Do you think any disadvantage could be equalised with fact that she would apply to learn languages she hasn't learnt at home? Thanks!

OP posts:

Original poster

rheafern · 04/03/2022 23:37

@MarchingFrogs

At some universities, it is possible to study joint honours law and a language, if this is something that would be of interest?

That sounds really interesting! I just had a look and found this 4-year course at Bristol for example. www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/2023/law/llb-law-german/

I wonder if law firms would also value this sort of joint degree? Or it seen as worse than simply a Law degree at Bristol. Does it make a difference?

OP posts: