Epsom College Failing at Oxbridge?

[HedgehogFan]

I have a young DS at EC and have seen a considerable decline of Oxbridge offers compared to other similar Independent Schools. Does anyone know why?

There is certainly a lot of variety within English education as well as the right to home school. The Queen did not even attend a school. I certainly don't want imposed Soviet style one size fits all in education.

I don't think Oxbridge has reached my hypothetical situation - that if it let in too many people who were not up it then employers would notice and simply not hire those people and look elsewhere. Now that could be the Tim Nice but Dim types or someone who ticks lots of disadvantaged boxes but should not really have got in as cannot keep up to the standard. (Grammars (in the very few areas of England which has them) and fee paying schools are pretty much in the same bucket really in this debate and there is not much difference)

@hopperrock

Selective grammars may do better than selective indies, but they can't have the same socio-economic diversity as non-selective schools. That's the whole point of selection isn't it - that it's not available to everyone. Some people who live alongside the school, in the same community, are excluded.

This. I can't really comment on private schools but as regards grammar v non-grammar, my DS went to an all-boys' grammar school, my DD went to a secondary modern. The 2 schools are equidistant from our house, located in the same town and are roughly the same size (in fact the grammar is slightly larger).

Anyone who thinks that the resources, finances, ethnic diversity and socio-economic status of the 2 schools is even remotely comparable simply doesn't have a scooby.

Just seen from our HT that there are 17 offers to our Yr 13 students for Oxbridge this year. This is a grammar but not super selective.

In my experience, it’s true in some cases, but mostly not. Not anymore. Those days are gone.

Except that it’s arguable that the OP is lamenting those days long gone ….

Now that could be the Tim Nice but Dim types

Lots of those types in the past when only 15% of young people went to university - have you never heard of the “Gentleman’s Third”?

When I started Corporate life in the 90's, an Oxbridge (or equivalent international elite) degree was requisite in my sector. I worked with a number of much older Major Public School/Oxbrige/Guards types who were neither dazzling in intellect nor inclined towards hard work. Thankfully those days are gone and WP may not be perfect but it is a huge step in the right direction.

• Oxbridge

LaChanticleer the Oxford fourth was the real prize (a Recorder of London once told with a very great deal of satisfaction that he had been awarded the last fourth at Oxford).

I was at university with someone who boasted about aiming for a third because it was rather vulgar actually to grub away at studying.

27 went from my DD's state 6th form. There's 1500 in the year though! They are just as deserving of places and finally more are getting in. Only 9% of kids are privately educated, it's about time Oxford and Cambridge capped private school places at that % in my opinion

@gogohm there are 1500 pupils in one year?? 😮 How big is the school?!

I know someone who got a third at Oxford. A very bright mathematician who is an academic. But they have had a very hard time of it due to that third. They fell in love at the wrong time.

It is disingenuous to think that anyone who is prepared to commit to X number of years of private school fees would do so on the understanding that they are buying an Oxbridge place for their child. Everyone knows that it is a process that yields surprising results in many (not all) cases.

What is more interesting is whether there is still a point in considering Oxbridge in the first place given the vagaries of the entry process. The move to anonymise places of study by several major graduate employers seems to signal that these companies don't much care that a candidate has a degree from Oxbridge. Whether this move is for show or not remains to be seen. A recent visit to Oxford with dc was unispiring and revealed the provision to be somewhat tired (a STEM subject). In addition, if people are interested in, for example, a career in the high end of finance, where you studied and whether you can actually do the job that will earn you the lucrative sums are very different things (you may get interviews and hired but if you blow up, you are out, e.g., Blair's son). Is any investment in an Oxbridge application that is more than a punt worth it these days?

To answer the OP's original question. Yes they are, just look at the decline in the number of places they have achieved over the last ten years both in absolute terms and compared to local schools (eg CLFS and St John's) both of whom they used to significantly outperform and who are now achieving the same or greater results.

As to why. I'd look at them school management over that period and the exodus of teachers that has followed from that management, the good news is the governors seem to have woken up and there is a new head coming in September. (From St John's via Croydon High).