Seeking support/advice - possibly Dd dropping out Uni

[Monica53]

Hi

Seeking advice/support our Dd doing medicine and resitting year which has left her despondent/demotivated along with Covid not a good mix.

Now still home and doesn’t want to go back, stating if she drops out everyone will think she’s thick etc.. offered support and suggested speak to Uni tutors/well-being and also student finance -as she did foundation year so in effect now 3rd yr so not sure if she did some other course from
September nearer home would she get finance? . She is now really
Low and not called or done any actions to get suppprt/advice.

We’ve even suggested that take this year as revision due to lockdown year ? Not taken well . We’ve also said not everyone who starts Uni completes for one reason or another .

Thankyou for reading

Hi @Monica53 - I would suggest she contact the student support/wellbeing team at the University, they could offer her some support (student counselling if wanted, study skills and academic support). Lots of students are in this position, particularly because of covid, and it might reassure her she's not the only one. She may have the option to defer for a year, which would give her some headspace. May also be possible to transfer to a Uni closer to home. With regard to finances I would suggest speaking to the Uni Fees and Funding team who will be able to give her advice. It's understandable she is feeling low and lacking motivation but you sound very supportive. Is she 100% on medicine? As it will only get harder academically as she move through the years. Would biomed science interest her? As she would have lots of transferable skills. Is she has 'opted in' (given consent for you to speak to the Uni on her behalf) you could contact them for her. Another option if you are concerned is to look at the Uni website and see if you could fill in a wellbeing support request. This would trigger staff to offer support, at my Uni this can be done anonymously. Hope this helps a bit xx I work at a RG Uni recently moved into academic team from wellbeing.

Excuse typo's I'm on a new phone!

@BrownEyedWoman- Thankyou for reply - she is 100%medicine - I think she spoke to well-being last weekend though refused to make contact with any tutor. We’ve said she is likely not only person/student feeling this way though she is feeling very negative and doesn’t take onboard what or any suggestions at present. She is due to travel
Back tomorrow and unsure if she’ll actually go? Also in private rental. Suggested she does some sort of action plan for when she decides to speak to tutor/finance.

What years has she done and what has/is she repeating? She's done foundation year, first and second years. And is now third year (her 4th) but failed last term and needs to repeat or .....?

I think I posted on your previous thread when your DD failed her exams so I hope you don't mind me referring to previous threads, OP.

Many medical students end up having to resit at least one exam at some point and it really isn't uncommon to have to retake a year. No one is going to think that she is "thick". She only just missed passing and isn't the only student retaking the year, IIRC? Is she not enjoying medicine or is it the university that she is not happy with?

It's also not uncommon to take a year out from med school for health or personal reasons.

I'm not sure I have any practical advice but I believe it is difficult to change universities for medicine without starting from scratch.

What year is she in currently? If she is coping academically and in the 3rd year, could she complete an intercalated BSc (even if she takes a break now) and leave before the clinical years, if she doesn't want a career in medicine? I believe some universities award BScs in Medical Sciences to students who have passed all the pre-clinical years but don't complete their MBBS.

It might be difficult from a funding point of view to change courses unless you can afford to pay/loan her the money for fees/living costs. Here are the rules:
www.gov.uk/student-finance/who-qualifies

@titchy Thankyou for reply - she’s done foundation year and having to repeat Yr1 - had very little feedback which has left her so down and demotivated whatever we try to suggest.

[quote Monica53]@titchy Thankyou for reply - she’s done foundation year and having to repeat Yr1 - had very little feedback which has left her so down and demotivated whatever we try to suggest.[/quote]
So did she pass year one at the second attempt then? And is now in what year? Her third? Her fourth? And what year of the programme?

You need to say very specifically what she has done because her options depend on it and it's really not clear.

@titchy apologies- she did her foundation year which she passed , did Yr1 medicine and failed so having to resit Yr1 . If that makes sense - Thankyou

Ok I read your previous threads, she's in her third year of study, having done a foundation year, a first year and now resitting the first year of the programme.

You had quite a lot of advice in your original thread about her resitting the first year - did you/she take any of the advise?

How does she feel the autumn term has gone?

In all honesty dropping out now could well be a very sensible course of action. Unless the issues which caused her to fail her first year exam(s) AND the resit have been addressed it's not going to get easier, it'll get much much harder. And she'll have run out of funding.

If she leaves now she will have done two years and one term. She is entitled to one extra year of funding, so if she starts again elsewhere this September will have to pay for one year and one term. Trying to see this current year out means if she still then starts again this September she'll have to fund two full years herself.

I think in all honesty medicine isn't for her right now.

@chesirecat99 Thankyou - yep she isn’t the only one there are another 10students- however she has no contact with any of them as all in different groups and she doesn’t know who they are?.

She has said today she doesn’t like the University and doesn’t feel she fits in as isn’t a drinker ? and all societies revolve around drinking? I’ve attempted to discuss this no no avail with her. She also stated as soon as she gets back to Uni she is counting down days to come home.

We have said that she will not be alone, however she has got into her head that she failed, Uni didn’t help and hasn’t helped? . We’ve said she needs to take action and talk to Uni as she seems to be on hamster wheel and just going around and not getting anywhere so needs to seek out help and advice regards finances

Did her foundation year , did Yr 1 in Covid lockdown and failed so resitting Yr1.

Thankyou

@titchy Thankyou - not sure she took much onboard sadly! She is resitting the whole of Yr1- deep down I do think she wants to dropout , however it needs to be her decision and at present she is not open to advice from myself or her dad or any family , being very negative

I did medicine many years ago and still teach students now.
I've not read any of your previous posts though.
My experience was that I disliked my preclinical years (and they were pretty separate in my day). I'm not a natural scientist and I struggled quite a bit. I had to resit a couple of exams in the first year and one in my second. For me, I really wanted to do medicine and I just had to get my head down and work as hard as I could, accepting that I was fairly near the bottom of my cohort.
As soon as we started clinical medicine I jumped to well within the top half of my cohort and loved it - it was still hard work but I could see the sense in it if that makes sense. I've done well in my career and those initial failures were just a blip.
I think your dd needs to get rid of the "I'm thick" mentality but she also needs to seek whatever help she needs. It will be virtually impossible for her to move uni at this stage so she needs to decide whether she is in this for the long game (ie prepared to put up with temporary discomfort) or not.
Two blunt things (sorry):

1. Medical school is the easy part of a medical career. She really needs to think about how she will cope with many more setbacks with far less support available in the future.
2. Her tutors will want to help. But they won't go out of their way to do so. Frankly she will still just be a number to them. If she drops out it won't make a big difference to them. She needs to be proactive. Sorry if that sounds harsh but medicine is going to be really hard work for the next 40 years of her life and she will need to ask for help lots and lots of times - she needs to start doing that now...

@Chilldonaldchill Thankyou for your honest and very informative feedback or is greatly appreciated- we’ve said it won’t be easy and if she really wants the career she’ll work hard at it!

OP I will be honest, I agree with @titchy. It sounds as though there is a lot for her to do and she hasn't got very far. Medicine is a five-year course if I am correct, she did foundation year so she has six years, and she is half way through the second of those (in effect). And she hates it and wants to come home.

Academically, she has done a pre-year and then failed the first full year of five. As I understand it (med degrees NOT my area) it will only get more and more difficult. My niece did med (several years ago) and found it so hard; many many people dropped out along the way so there is, as it were, no shame in that, or at least it is not unusual.

I think the brave thing to do in this situation is to admit it is not for you (which it genuinely sounds like it isn't, sorry) and think again, restart. She doesn't have to do a degree, or she doesn't have to do one now. Is there another area of healthcare which could be of interest? Might she be able to get funding or some sort of bursary for (eg) nursing or OT? I know my bro did a second degree in OT and it was fully funded.

Just a personal tale - my DD is really struggling with issues similar to yours. I only found out half way through last year (second year of a three-year course) and she wanted to keep going. She now has one semester to go and I think she will get there but it has been a lot of hard work for her (in various ways) and she has needed a lot of support. If I had known about her issues at Christmas of year 1 I think I would have advised her to stop and leave; restart later when she was feeling better. As I say, she has struggled on through 12 months, about five months to go and she hopefully will make it. Not saying it is the same situation as obvs everyone is different, but you are asking your DD to do another four and a half years. That's a lot if she is not enjoying it at all.

sorry if this post sounds harsh; your DD's situation may be different from how I am reading it, but your OP struck a chord and I wanted to share.

OP, your DD sounds as if she is suffering from depression. Have you seen your GP? I'm a psychologist so not jumping in randomly (I also have a DD who is hoping to start Medicine so that is why I am on this board).

I know many people whose high performing children have had depression / serious anxiety (needing medication) and breakdowns in A level year, 1st year or 2nd year. The transition to University / End of School is well known in psychological teaching as being a trigger point for MH issues.

I would get the GP involved before making any decisions on her course.

Good luck.

How far is her university from home? Is there a nearer medical school that might accept her on a transfer if she passes this year? That could be an incentive to return and pass.

If she does drop out, what does she want to do? In reality, university may not be an option as she will have exhausted the funding she would need for a 3 year programme elsewhere. So is there something she would prefer to do (with no degree) rather than buckling down and going back?

@clary Thankyou for your honest reply - dd has a meeting with tutor on Wednesday, ive asked question tonight if the work is ok - not at moment and she can’t say of course is for her or not ! Anything I say is wrong so I’ve suggested seeking out support as mi as possible. One thing she keeps saying is she hates the Uni ! In my view if that’s the case she should dropout and take a year get a job and rethink however it has to be her decision as I personally don’t want to get blame in years ahead for her not completing course

I would advise her to drop out and get a job. Maybe in a year or so she can consider college or university again if she wants, but she does not sound happy.
Tertiary education isn’t for everyone.

She needs to talk to her academic year leads ASAP to discuss her options (stay, leave of absence, exit seen Ike the relevant choices). Right now she won't have enough credits to graduate with anything, so there is a conversation to have about academic skills, approach, settling in, finances, which is best had with experienced staff. In her shoes I'd do this as a matter of urgency. A leave of absence in these times is hardly unjustified, and might give her headspace to sort out mental health support and earn a bit of cash before giving it her all one last time.
Is she engaged with GP support for mental health at all?
Ultimately medicine is a long and arduous course, with little let up, and the job on the other side needs some remaining resilience in reserve. There should be no shame in reconsidering options, particularly given the total change of situation since application.

@Annasgirl Thankyou for your response , she does suffer from depression/anxiety and has medication- she was bullied by supposed best friends at beginning of high school and continued throughout. She has appt with one of tutors on Wednesday, I’ve gently suggested she makes some sort of action plan - however she currently isn’t very receptive to any advice /suggestions from
Myself. Leaving it to her - I’ve stated she isn’t the first to question Uni and course she’s doing

@comeundone Thankyou - It is a very stressful time or worrying time as her parents - Uni is 5/6hrs drive away from
Home . She has appt with tutor Wednesday so We’ll see what happens there.? She has links to various student support I just hope she takes it up rather than sitting brewing and wasting important time and resulting in not being able to get funding for any future course I’d that is an option .

@FelicityPike - Thankyou - it will have to be her decision, meeting with tutor this week and hoping she talks to well-being

@SerendipitySunshine Thankyou - Uni is 5/6hr drive from
Home /1hr flight with easyJet - she doesn’t know what she wants , her words . Meeting with tutor on Wednesday and see from there . I’m conscious of time and concerned she won’t get any funding for any future course if she decides to stop studies

The other thing I'd add...
There are a huge number of degrees for professions allied to medicine nowadays which not enough people know about.
I met someone recently who is doing a degree in Radiotherapy and Oncology. By the end of her 3 year course she will get a job doing the radiotherapy in an oncology clinic for all the cancer patients including doing gamma knife treatments and brachytherapy. A consultant oncologist friend was doing all that himself until recently - now it's a whole job in itself. Admittedly there is less career progression and less - though decent - income but also less stress and bureaucracy - and you get the best bits of the job.
Not that I'm saying everyone should do this obviously - but there are options which aren't sacrificing everything about medicine but might be significantly less stressful.

@Chilldonaldchill - Thankyou - we’ll see what happens - do you know what website for professions? … where I’m sitting I can’t see her continuing with course , I’ve been see to be wrong however ….. needs to speak to Uni/well-being/careers /finance to gain advice etc