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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

UK medicine study - how , what when for aspirants

54 replies

NoviceBuyer2022 · 02/01/2022 13:02

Hi
I have an eager year 7 son who has pestered me with a lot of questions on UK medicine study and I do not know anything about it .
Can you all guide based on your experience on everything that he needs to be doing to get right subjects, right exam , right coaching in Warwickshire and the target grades
He asked me for best uni as well but I am currently just relying on Google
His end goal is to become neurosurgeon so think it’s a long way for my learning as well about how this goes and how much I need to save ( or is there some scholarship in case he gets good marks etc) Smile

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titchy · 02/01/2022 14:07

He's 11. He needs to work hard at school. That's it for now. Come back in four years for more specific advice on subjects and work experience.

As with any degree course he'll get loans for fees and maintenance - the latter means tested according to household income. If you earn over £25k you'll be expected to contribute, anywhere from £100 a year to £4k a year.

SometimesRavenSometimesParrot · 02/01/2022 14:45

Exactly as Titchy says - main thing is to work hard at school so he can get the best GCSEs he needs to make the right next steps. In a year or two you/he might want to keep your eye out for any medical specific outreach programmes or events that school participates in, as some start in Y9.

Post GCSE he’d take A Levels, common ones are bio/chem/maths. Would typically be aiming for AAA minimum.

He’ll need work experience or similar but that would be Y11 onwards.

Assuming you’re British and living in Britain he’ll access student finance loans for fees and living costs, but the system could well be totally different by the time he gets there so I wouldn’t think too much on that now.

He is currently seven years away from making his application and things could change substantially in that time, so I wouldn’t get hung up on any details at this point.

titchy · 02/01/2022 15:03

I'd also add, don't let him get too fixated on medicine. Far healthier to have an open mind and have other interests/strengths encouraged at this age.

Lovecatsanddogs · 02/01/2022 16:55

My DS was a St John Ambulance cadet for a long time before his application.

NoviceBuyer2022 · 02/01/2022 17:24

Thanks @Lovecatsanddogs that is a very good hint and he could have joined earlier if I had known it .
Just last week, he went to our GP to ask if he can spend a day with them and was asked to wait till COVID loosens! So he might like this opportunity to experience.
Have now joined waiting list for Stratford unit . Thanks!!
@SometimesRavenSometimesParrot Thank you
A lot of info there , where can I know more about following:
medical specific outreach programmes or events that school participates in
For the school ones , I am guessing his school will help know.
It’s very helpful to know the subjects. I can make him realise that his interests needs to be in those to dream about being a neurosurgeon 😉

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NoviceBuyer2022 · 02/01/2022 17:28

@titchy thank you I think I have tried that and keep telling him, it’s time for preparation but thought I must start working on my lack of knowledge before time .
Is there any coaching to be done for various entrance for med as well? I got to know about 11+ coaching , pretty late so asking about GCSE and med entrance earlier .
From Google have come to know about BMAT only as the entrance he needs to fill form of , any others ?

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SarahJessicaParker1 · 02/01/2022 17:30

I know someone who worked in care as a school leaver and then did the GAMSAT and studied medicine as a mature student. It worked really well as he then had hands on experience. He didn't have the horrible shock of the hands on aspect of medicine when he started uni. A lot of the 18yos who had just finished a levels were not prepared for the unglamorous side of medicine

Good luck to him Smile

Lovecatsanddogs · 02/01/2022 17:55

UCAT for some schools and BMAT for others. Medic Portal is a good resource.
My DS was keen from 11 and never wavered from
medicine.

titchy · 02/01/2022 17:59

Christ alive don't let him ask the GP - think about it - you've got a breast lump/miscarriage/piles/suicidal thoughts. You want a kid there while you tell them that.

Get real.

SometimesRavenSometimesParrot · 02/01/2022 18:27

@NoviceBuyer2022

Thanks *@Lovecatsanddogs* that is a very good hint and he could have joined earlier if I had known it . Just last week, he went to our GP to ask if he can spend a day with them and was asked to wait till COVID loosens! So he might like this opportunity to experience. Have now joined waiting list for Stratford unit . Thanks!! *@SometimesRavenSometimesParrot* Thank you A lot of info there , where can I know more about following: medical specific outreach programmes or events that school participates in For the school ones , I am guessing his school will help know. It’s very helpful to know the subjects. I can make him realise that his interests needs to be in those to dream about being a neurosurgeon 😉
You need to ask school what they’re involved in, but it’ll depend on the sort of school. They will have a named careers lead, so you could drop them an email. Programmes will have entry criteria though so I wouldn’t get his hopes up until you’ve more of an idea.
SometimesRavenSometimesParrot · 02/01/2022 18:31

[quote NoviceBuyer2022]@titchy thank you I think I have tried that and keep telling him, it’s time for preparation but thought I must start working on my lack of knowledge before time .
Is there any coaching to be done for various entrance for med as well? I got to know about 11+ coaching , pretty late so asking about GCSE and med entrance earlier .
From Google have come to know about BMAT only as the entrance he needs to fill form of , any others ?[/quote]
Don’t think about entry exams right now. They’re sat in Y12 or Y13 and again could could change substantially between now and then. He doesn’t need any tutoring at this point, just to get used to working hard and applying himself.

I also wouldn’t be looking at any work experience or shadowing now - wait until he’s older, bit more understanding and will get much more out of it.

If he’s desperate to crack on, he could look at following different doctors on Twitter and YouTube, watching public lecture etc. there are online courses through futurelearn and coursera but honestly probably slightly above his level at this point. Dr Mike Varshavski has a great YouTube channel.

NoviceBuyer2022 · 02/01/2022 18:45

Thanks for advice @Lovecatsanddogs ,@SarahJessicaParker1and @SometimesRavenSometimesParrot

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Fuuuuuckit · 02/01/2022 19:14

For uni applications he'll need to stand out. Does he do anything extra-curricular? Scouts, St John etc? Is he learning a musical instrument? Make sure he applies for Duke of Edinburgh as soon as he can.

All these things will stand him in good stead anyway, but the competition for med places is immense.

He's in y7 now. GCSEs, A-Levels then 5 years at uni, 2 years foundation before even beginning to think about specialising - has he got what it takes to study that long, and hard enough to qualify? Medicine is BRUTAL even for those who get in.

Notagardener · 02/01/2022 19:30

I read few days ago about a survey of 1000+ doctors. More than half would not have gone to medical school if they could start again. I tried to look for it to get the exact number but can't find it now.

NoviceBuyer2022 · 02/01/2022 19:46

@Fuuuuuckit
Did some Google -found following- think you gave that hint in time - he is not late !

14-24 year-olds can do a DofE programme at one of three progressive levels which, when successfully completed, leads to a Bronze, Silver or Gold Duke of Edinburgh’s Award.

He does learn violin.
I am to be honest encouraging him to think about other professions though it’s medical he is stuck to since years .
Hence it’s me now who is wearing on persuasion rather than him 😒
But I understand this might change in future so thank you for hinting at that.

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3boyshere · 02/01/2022 20:11

Hello my son is a GP and it has been a long hard slog. At the moment your son needs to concentrate on his studies to get decent gcse grades. My son, over several years did D of E bronze and silver, played the cello (not brilliantly!) did some volunteering in an old peoples home, volunteered as a scout leader, did karate up to brown belt and got some amazing work experience in a hospital at aged 17 shadowing a carer. Basically they are looking for someone who is an all rounder. They would prefer someone who takes part in several things long term than someone who has paid to go on a course. Hope this helps you x

MouseySun · 02/01/2022 20:21

I don't think you need to know how to play an instrument. At 11 he is very young to know the exact profession he wants to train for but I suppose fact finding now will help him make informed choices later. What are his fav subjects at school? Is he outstanding academically?

NoviceBuyer2022 · 02/01/2022 23:02

@MouseySun I think I might be biased but seems academically inclined not best at sports but likes to play most games and trying hand at arts and violin now
Likes science and maths .. chemistry and physics are new acquaintances so not sure how will they turn out to be friends or foes ☺️
@3boyshere
Thank you very much for the advice. I am very thankful to hear 1st hand experience alongside all advice here
It’s surely a hope for someone like me to get all these advices so quickly , with no acquaintances.
Thank you - please keep advising

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RampantIvy · 03/01/2022 08:39

Most universities ignore D of E. Another thing to consider is doing an WOW in a medical related subject in 6th form.

DD was unsuccessful in her med school application, and part of the reason was that she couldn't get any experience. Round here no-one would accept her as she was under 18, and didn't turn 18 until after she left school.

Fairyfield · 03/01/2022 09:04

Some interesting reads for you as a parent and for your son when he is ready:

'This is Going to Hurt' Adam Kay (An easy read, but gives a real insight into life as an NHS junior Dr)

'War Doctor' David Nott (An amazing man who failed his A levels but went on to become a trauma surgeon then volunteered to work in war/disaster zones around the world). This man needs a knighthood!!

'In the Wars' Dr Waheed Arian (The journey from Kabul, a refugee camp in Pakistan, prison in the UK, self study, to Medicine at Cambridge University).

NoviceBuyer2022 · 03/01/2022 13:07

Thanks @Fairyfield I will get him to read one of these surely.

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NoviceBuyer2022 · 03/01/2022 13:08

@RampantIvy
Do you mean she was ahead of her year group
Most of the advice speak of volunteering as experience
Do you mean she was not accepted in volunteering?
What kind of experience did she try and got refused due to age ?

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RampantIvy · 03/01/2022 13:13

No, she has a summer birthday and was one of the youngest in her year. She had three years experience as a young leader at Brownies, and three months at a care home. At the care home she wasn't allowed to do very much, not even give the residents a cup of tea as she was under 18.

Even the local pharmacy wouldn't take her as she was under 18.

I think the main reasons she didn't get in was that her UCAT score could have been better, and she just didn't do well at the MMIs, but not getting the healthcare work experience won't have helped.

bimkom · 03/01/2022 13:14

@NoviceBuyer2022 - can I suggest you read through the medicine applicant support threads on here (starting from the beginning).

For example:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/4358647-Medicine-2022-entry

Although that is the second or third thread - so you might want to go back and read from the beginning. Similarly find the 2021 support thread. Both of these were threads for mothers who DC were applying for medicine. You will see a fair bit of me on the 2021 thread, as my DS, while on a gap year, as a deferred place for medicine at Nottingham University.
Obviously just about everybody on there had DC who were a lot older than your DS are - but it will give you a real sense. It might also become clear the extent to which the various medical schools change their criteria from year to year. Nottingham University ,where my DS has a place, has completely changed its entry criteria this year. So has Liverpool (another place my DS applied). Some of that might have to do with the A levels and GCSEs being TAGs, due to Covid, but some of it is that medical schools can and do change - and each one is a world unto itself. One will value GCSE grades, another the UCAT, another A levels - and you are only allowed to apply to four - so you need to pick strategically. Or at least that is how it has been for the last few years. Who knows, by the time your DS gets to Year 13, even that might have changed. But understanding the process of selection for medical school now might help you and your DS understand why people are saying that the key thing now is to concentrate on getting good GCSEs - when you understand that, at least in normal years, many, many medical schools use GCSE grades for a significant part of their scoring system to rank who gets offered an intervew.

On the 2022 thread you will come across the parent of an applicant who when he started A levels, thought he was going for a different career, and so didn't take chemistry, and how restrictive the medical school options were with that (I think there are only two medical schools he could apply to). Not taking biology also restricts the options. Certainly biology, chemistry and maths is a safe choice for A levels which keeps options open. There are something like 31 medical schools in the UK, and what my DS did in Year 12, was draw up a spreadsheet, and in that he put in all the entrance criteria for each of them (from their current websites) - and then also other things he either liked or wasn't so keen on. All that information is available on each medical school's webiste (although you often have to hunt to find out exactly how they rank for interview - not the minimum requirements, which are easy to find, but given that every medical school is desperately oversubscribed, you need to know how they rank). But the key thing to understand is that they really do change every year, so anything other than a general sense that GCSEs and exams taken in Year 12/13 are important will not necessarily help your DS.

NoviceBuyer2022 · 03/01/2022 13:26

So one dumb query assuming grades are fine and we fill 4 options but do not interview of anyone , what happens then
With secondary / grammar school admissions, there was a backup that DS will be allocated a secondary school where place would be available.
What happens now at uni level?

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