Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

UK medicine study - how , what when for aspirants

54 replies

NoviceBuyer2022 · 02/01/2022 13:02

Hi
I have an eager year 7 son who has pestered me with a lot of questions on UK medicine study and I do not know anything about it .
Can you all guide based on your experience on everything that he needs to be doing to get right subjects, right exam , right coaching in Warwickshire and the target grades
He asked me for best uni as well but I am currently just relying on Google
His end goal is to become neurosurgeon so think it’s a long way for my learning as well about how this goes and how much I need to save ( or is there some scholarship in case he gets good marks etc) Smile

OP posts:
NoviceBuyer2022 · 03/01/2022 13:28

@bimkom I have started going through the links you shared now thanks !

OP posts:
titchy · 03/01/2022 13:31

@NoviceBuyer2022

So one dumb query assuming grades are fine and we fill 4 options but do not interview of anyone , what happens then With secondary / grammar school admissions, there was a backup that DS will be allocated a secondary school where place would be available. What happens now at uni level?
You have up to five choices - four of which can be medicine. The fifth is often something similar but not actually medicine (Biomedical Sciences for example).

If you get no medicine offers but an offer for the non-med choice then either take it, or re-apply. Or go through cleaning for an alternative course.

There is no guarantee of a uni offer the way there is for schools.

NoviceBuyer2022 · 03/01/2022 13:49

Thanks @titchy

OP posts:
NoviceBuyer2022 · 03/01/2022 13:51

When reapply is this similar to round process of secondary school as in when 1st finishes late admission will be considered
What is cleaning sorry?

OP posts:
titchy · 03/01/2022 13:58

@NoviceBuyer2022

When reapply is this similar to round process of secondary school as in when 1st finishes late admission will be considered What is cleaning sorry?
Look at the UCAS website.

But seriously you're way too early for any of this. Encourage a good work ethic. Don't let him become fixated by this one goal. Your job as a parent is to encourage breadth and enjoyment of education, to raise awareness of other areas he could succeed in - art, law, engineering, nursing, politics, literature, geology, programming. He's 11 - theres a whole world of careers he could do and be great in. Open his mind.

mumsneedwine · 03/01/2022 13:59

@NoviceBuyer2022 I'm going to suggest not worrying too much about the application process just yet. Things may v we'll change in the next 6 years.
I'd concentrate on getting the best grades for now and aiming for the best GCSE results. Work experience is useful, working in a care home is possible from 16. But you don't need loads. Long term volunteering at anything is good as it shows commitment and the ability to stick at something. Lots of Unis also like part time work as it shows an ability to time manage studies.
Things like UCAT and BMAT may v well change over next few years so don't get too fixated on them yet. There will time enough for that stress !

mumsneedwine · 03/01/2022 14:00

@titchy 😊 x posted. Definitely agree on broadening options for now - neurosurgeon is a v specific career goal at 11. My 4th year medic still doesn't know what she wants to specialise in. There are so many things you've never heard off !

Siepie · 03/01/2022 14:03

@NoviceBuyer2022

When reapply is this similar to round process of secondary school as in when 1st finishes late admission will be considered What is cleaning sorry?
Clearing is applying to a university on a-level results day, if you haven't got into any of the universities that you originally applied for. Universities will only accept clearing applications for courses that aren't full, so for competitive courses like medicine there are very few clearing spaces available.

Reapplying means applying again the next year.

Unlike secondary schools, nobody is guaranteed a university place. If a teenager doesn't get a place through the normal application process or clearing, they can't go to uni that year. They have to work or do something else, and can reapply the next year. I wouldn't worry too much about this while your son is only 11 though!

SometimesRavenSometimesParrot · 03/01/2022 15:27

Definitely don’t start getting bogged down with the application process/clearing etc. You’re wasting brain power/space as it’s likely to be very different when your son applies - we may have even moved to a post qualification admissions process by then so you are honestly wasting your time. You don’t need to think about the details until Y10 at the EARLIEST.

Titchy gives excellent advice on the next few years but if you have questions on the current system UCAS will help - but it’s honestly not worth swotting up on the current system.

titchy · 03/01/2022 15:35

we may have even moved to a post qualification admissions process by then

😱 Oh God I'd managed to avoid thinking about this over the hols!

bimkom · 03/01/2022 22:16

@Novicebuyer2022 So one dumb query assuming grades are fine and we fill 4 options but do not interview of anyone , what happens then
With secondary / grammar school admissions, there was a backup that DS will be allocated a secondary school where place would be available.
What happens now at uni level?

It is not a dumb question. A lot of medicine applicants do not get in. Some take a different course (like biomed, or nursing, or there are a range of other academic medical related courses) and either give up on their dream of medicine, or they try and apply as a graduate, as there are some graduate programmes (but these are even harder to get into than the undergraduate ones. The general advice, at least at the moment, is don't do another degree with the sole aim of doing graduate medicine).
Many, many other rejected applicants reapply the following year, and a third time, and some even more than that - although eventually people probably peel off and give up on their dream.
While I totally agree with peopl that the system could completely change by the time your DS is finishing his A levels, I don't think - if the OP genuinely has the time, and her DS is interested, it is a complete waste of time. You forget that many, many people learn all this because they have friends and family going through it, and I do think it sets them up much better - even when the information becomes out of date. The OP clearly doesn't have that kind of network, so she is using Mumsnet. As long as she understands that the information dates, and could all change, why not have some understanding of the process as so many sixth formers (and gap year takers, etc) are going through.
The other reason why it might be useful to have this kind of information is because it is tough, and it might help him either to think about other alternatives or at least to realise that he might need to take them.
And, I confess, maybe partily because I remember a seven year old, bowling up to one of the main volunteers (who was also a medical student) at the playgroup for very disabled kids that his brother was at, and saying with all the gravitas a seven year old can muster "we have to talk about medicine" - we all laughed (if not openly, quietly), although the medical student told him whatever he wanted to know about what it was like for her. Only medical student we knew. Said seven year old (after flirting with architecture for a good portion of his high school) is now on a gap year and due to start medicine next year. He also took a long time to get to be a St Johns cadet, because we too didn't know about it, and only when he met one while playing in his band in Year 9 did he hear about it (and then there was a three year waiting list). I think real knowledge, even if it will most likely become completely out of date, has a certain value, even though you really don't "need" it. Some people want it, and have the time for it, and why shouldn't they have it? It helps scratch a forward thinking itch that some people have about their future. It may not be necessary, but it doesn't hurt (unless there are other more urgent things the OP needs to be doing).

NoviceBuyer2022 · 03/01/2022 23:56

@bimkom I am so very thankful for you to understand my situation and point of view .
Like any other parent, I do not want my child to be robbed of opportunities he could have had if I was not so ignorant of higher education in UK and had the right network.
At very least I can do is try to gather information since no parent would want their child to be lagging because of their lack of knowledge
Also I believe systems change but rarely drastically to be irrelevant to past .. not to forget loads of references from internet and people will keep using those old jargons that I would know this way…
After all the lost precious thing I have to do is to help my DS either find way to medical or help him think of alternatives in case it does not work out
On this note , every advice I have got has led me to a waiting list anyways , be it St.John or scout , so I think certainly the forum is helpful in time to wake me up looking for places !
Thank you all ! Please continue advising and many including me would be thankful.

OP posts:
NoviceBuyer2022 · 03/01/2022 23:58

Typo correction from lost to most 😒
After all the most precious thing I have to do is to help my DS either find way to medical or help him think of alternatives in case it does not work out

OP posts:
SometimesRavenSometimesParrot · 04/01/2022 00:19

No child will be lagging because they’re not hammering away at their medical school application in year seven.

And the point I’ve made about a change to post qual admissions means that the process WILL be so different that the current system is irrelevant. The whole sector is waiting on big reviews about this, and student finance too. There’s also various reviews about technical quals, some of which could be medical, new qualifications like T Levels that have potentially biomedical or healthcare science options…the field really will be so different

No one’s trying to discourage you, we’re just trying to be realistic and suggest you spend your energy on the most worthwhile things for your son right now: encouraging his academic ability, his resilience and work ethic and his engagement with what interests him - whether that be St Johns Ambulance, cadets, violin or whatever else.

bimkom · 04/01/2022 00:19

BTW my DS was lucky enough that a teacher at his school had trained as a volunteer paramedic and was able/arranged for them to take a first aid course in Year 9, which my DS loved and which gave him a certificate (don't think it is offered anymore now that that teacher has left).
Don't know how, without the teacher, he could have done this - but there must be some sort of first aid courses for kids out there (they do a lot of this training at St Johns cadets, but you do have to get in). These are very useful and key skills to have, whether one ends up doing medicine or not.

HedytheFoxRed · 04/01/2022 02:12

I also have a child who is a medical student. They were quite young when they said that was their career choice and I always tried very hard to strike a balance between taking it seriously and acknowledging that it was a realistic goal but not showing so much interest so that they might end up pigeonholing themselves too young. I wouldn't be doing much at all at this stage apart from encouraging your son to work hard at school and fostering an open mind about other career paths. I would encourage him in a range of hobbies/interests. Having other things going on is a great help in medical school applications, not just for success in getting a place (things to talk about in interviews) but to take some of the pressure off and help them to keep perspective. Your son has lots of time to think about volunteering. Try not to feel too much pressure at this stage about helping him fulfil his dream. You are clearly very supportive of him and that's the single most important thing that will build his confidence. There will be plenty of time for you to offer practical support once he is 15/16. Also, if your DS's heart is really in it, wild horses won't put him off.

NoNotHinTheOtherOne · 04/01/2022 10:17

I agree with everyone who is saying just to encourage him to do well at school and develop interests. Nobody has any idea what school-leaving qualifications will look like in six years' time, what medical school entry requirements/criteria will be, how post-qualification admissions will affect medical student selection, what new models will be introduced to increase numbers of doctors without the cost/delay of expanding conventional medical student numbers, etc.

bimkom · 05/01/2022 02:17

Interesting that the people on this board seem convinced that we are definitely moving to post qualification admission - and seem confident that the OP's DS will be caught up in that as a current Year 7.

As I understand it, the government has just called for consultation not made a definite decision (when is the consultation, which I gather has closed, due to report, or has it done it yet? - can't find anything on google to suggest they have reported). There were some surprising nay sayers eg:
www.teachfirst.org.uk/blog/post-qualifications-admissions-system

And see some of the concerns expressed by UCAS in:
wonkhe.com/blogs/ucas-cautiously-recommends-a-move-to-post-qualification-offers/

Noting particularly :

"It is likely that the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic will continue for some years to come. Negating the effects of the pandemic will be the priority for all of us in the education sector, so there is no doubt that we should plan our next steps very carefully. As we emerge from two years of no exams and disrupted learning, we are strongly recommending a full consideration of the timing of any reform implementation.

It is vital that any significant change to the overall model is confirmed far enough in advance so that applicants and teachers know the rules of the game and students can be adequately supported to navigate the changes."

There are a lot of people who would not be keen on more upheaval for the next few years at least. And then there is the question as to how it will work with those courses that require interview - as the model advocated by UCAS leaves no time for interview (and probably not chance to apply to do something else if you fail at interview). I grew up and went to university in a country where all offers were post the receiving of high school results - you applied to the various courses in order of preference, and when your grades came out, you knew whether you made the cut-off or not (each subject gave a score out of 100, and it was your best 4 out of a hundred and ten percent of your remaining subjects, if any, and the universities just put the applicants in total score order, and went down the list until the number of places had been filled)- but there was a lot of criticism about medicine in particular, because there was no interview, just whoever got the best academic scores got in. I just can't see the medical schools here accepting that And funnily enough, on my gap year, I meat a whole bunch of British students, but they were all ones who had applied to Oxbridge, because Oxbridge had its exams and interviews post finishing A levels, so they did their exams and interviews and then the rest of the year was a gap year. And when I asked many years later why that no longer happened here, I was told that it was considered to be unfair to disadvantaged students, who couldn't afford to take a gap year (or were too scared to risk it), so they stopped it as it was keeping Oxbridge as a bastion of privilege.
So it seems to me that there a huge amount to iron out for post qualification admissions to work for medicine/Oxbridge. And even if we grant that the medical schools will somehow manage to run around and have all their interviews in late August/early September (when most of their staff are no doubt on holiday), they will still need criteria over and above the A levels to determine who to interview, if A levels stay as simple grades, and not a scoring out of 100 so you can finely differentiate - the alternative being that it is not just the admission process, but how A levels are reported that would need to change. And each medical school will still choose to make that decision in different ways, and Year 13 students putting in applications (because the most popular model still has them applying while at school), will still have to apply strategically to get that interview. And the tips for medical interviews won't change, and the need to review how each university scores post interview won't change. Which means, it seems to me, that the system has to be more familiar than different. The only real difference will be that instead of using predicated grades as one of the many filters, they will use actual grades. And the timetable will be shifted. Can't see how it will work any other way.

The really big change would be if they insisted on postgraduate medical courses only, with the medical schools no longer taking school leavers, as some other countries do. Now that would be a huge change, but I don't see that one by the time the OP's DS is applying.

Player20868 · 05/01/2022 02:40

There's ages yet for him, and who knows what the world will look like by the time he's applying, but one lwss formal site you could look at is The Student Room, every year there are threads from applicants for all kinds of uni courses.

Player20868 · 05/01/2022 02:41

*less formal.

sendsummer · 05/01/2022 08:33

@Bimkom post qualification offers are the more favoured reform proposal at present.

@NoviceBuyer2022 tell your DS that he can prepare for medical admissions by reading or watching scientific material. For example if he is especially interested in neurosurgery at the moment then there is accessible material on this site on neuroscience faculty.washington.edu/chudler/introb.html#hf

Tell him to read what catches his interest and develop his concentration span for taking in information as that is a critical part of doing medicine.

bimkom · 05/01/2022 09:24

@sendsummer - favoured by whom? Teachers/high schools? Universities? The government? Which model?

How are Oxbridge/medicine/dentistry inteviews to be dealt with?

abra1d1 · 05/01/2022 09:42

As far as work experience is concerned, don't get too anxious if finding a week with a hospital doctor is difficult. My daughter found that having volunteered at a care home and with Riding for the Disabled was very useful in her interviews. She did get some shadowing, but not as much as some of her friends did. We also thought laterally--she'd been on a vaccine trial as an infant and we wrote to the vaccine team and asked if she could go in for a few days, and they said yes.

Actually it was waitressing experience that was particularly useful: her war story about having to tell a pub-load of people on a Bank Holiday that the chef had walked out mid-service and deal with the fallout from punters who weren't getting their main courses, aged 17, was a good one, albeit painful at the time.

NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 05/01/2022 10:53

@bimkom - post-qualification offers was the option preferred by the Russell Group (russellgroup.ac.uk/media/5932/russell-group-response-to-pqa-consultation.pdf). University Alliance stated a preference to revise the current system, but would prefer post-qualification offers to post-qualification applications (www.unialliance.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/PQA-consultation-UA-submission.pdf). I can't find anything from Million+ or GuildHE.
I believe the Medical Schools Council's response favoured post-qualification offers, too.

bimkom · 05/01/2022 12:04

I believe the Medical Schools Council's response favoured post-qualification offers, too.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne Do you have a link to where the medical schools have commented on this.
The proposed University Alliance timetable has applications being made in the week commencing 1st August, and applicants receiving their decisions by 3rd September. To balance this out, they allow for applications to 12 different courses.
For medicine, that will mean that almost all medical schools will have a tripling of applicants, as one of the biggest restrictions on the number of applicants to medical schools is the one is only allowed to apply to four medical schools. If my DS had had the option of 12, he would have applied to 12, as it really doesn't matter where you study medicine, the most important thing is getting a place somewhere. He comfortably overachieved his predicted grades, so applying grades in hand would have made absolutely no difference to him.
So how in hell could the medical schools deal with a triple more applicants and work out who to interview, knowing that every single on of those applicants have the grades in hand to be accepted - and then interview, rank on interview, and offer in a month? How are they going to find the staff willing to give up their entire August to do this?

Maybe we need to start an independent thread so that those involved in medical application can weigh in on the practicality of this solution.

Oxbridge presumably will have a similar issue - although they do usually interview within a few weeks. But most of the students they interview, the Oxbridge interview is their only interview. And presumably Oxbridge will have run their HATs and PATs andother entrance exams earlier so will have a better idea of the filtering by the time the grades go out (even if no formal application is received, they will know the numbers who have sat - and who therefore will be applying if they get the grades).