Oxbridge aspirants part 4......Hold onto your nerves interviews ahead....!

[TangoWhiskyAlphaTango]

Part 4 - A friendly supportive thread for those with DC applying to Oxbridge, its an arduous process to say the least. I suspect we will need some handholding and alcohol for the couple of weeks ahead as our dc have their interviews. For those still waiting to hear I hope news comes soon

Commiserations to all those disappointed. It’s a brutal process. And there is plenty of fluke involved.

I would say I got an interview from Scotland many moons ago (along with two others from my school) and met a few more Scots at interview (mostly privately educated). There was a wilful misunderstanding/lack of desire to understand the Scottish system at Oxford back then, to the extent that there were certain colleges that were basically blacklisted.

I applied to LMH because it was 'good for Scottish applicants' (the interviewer did not persuade me of this!). This is where Michael Gove went, so it may be true I guess. No idea if he was the only Scot ever to cross this threshold, though!
I'd liek to think this as changed but I am not convinced.

@SandyBayley I'm big into cake for everything - they have all worked hard to get to this stage just to submit an application and take the exams is a big commitment. Recognising effort is important - so I'd say cake for all DC whether they have been offered an interview or not

Valley of the dolly mix

Unfortunately I think it may be correct about STEM subjects being harder to access from the Scottish (state) school system.

My son is currently reading law at Oxford from a state school in the Highlands. His school has had successful applicants in recent years (around one a year) from other popular subjects such as law (10% success rate), PPE (11% success rate) and E & M ( 6% success rate). Not one from STEM though.

In fact I've just had a possible epiphany......

All the successful subjects for Oxbridge entry from Scotland are for subjects that are generally not taught at advanced higher level (or even widely A level) so no prior subject knowledge is required!!!!! It's innate ability that is assessed and selected from.

What does that say about the Scottish school curriculum???????

Ok, I stand corrected. I will maintain that it's such a crap shoot generally given the huge variance in numbers applying for different subjects. I strongly suspect that my son's subject, geography at Cambridge, with no pre tests or written work, culls very few before interview and certainly none with the sort of stellar resume of Puffalicious DS.

I remember when my kids were doing the 11+ for private schools being told that all the schools did research into outcomes for those who'd arrived from state schools or from prep schools and adjusted their admissions accordingly. The data was easy to interpret. Oxbridge really needs to do something similar if so few bright Scottish scientists are being given opportunities.

Not sure why it should be up to Elite English Unis to adjust admissions because of another countries poor educational standards.

I don't think it's fair to say it's poor educational standards - surely it's the one-year sixth form? And if the data says that Scottish students turn out to perform well, then maybe adjustments need to be made. Obviously if they all flunk out and it's a disaster, a different strategy is required.

Because they don't get it right all the time nolanscrack?

From family experience I think Cambridge are relatively poor at assessing potential and attainment measured in anything other than the English educational system. They are aspiring to be an international destination of choice for the best school leavers, so that should concern them. They clearly recognise there's an issue as they have identified too few Scottish school leavers getting places themselves.

There must presumably be some self-selection on the grounds of geography as well, not to mention fees. None of my DC so far has wanted to apply to any universities in Scotland because of the distances involved. I must say I’m glad not to have to do the treks that some of you have to undertake.

Reading this debate re STEM with interest. I grew up and was educated outside the U.K. The school system was different - with 6 or 7 subjects taken to the final year, and none studied as in depth as here. I then went on to study Maths at university. The English A level Maths course covers far more than I did at school, and quite a bit of my first year uni course. The Further Maths course covers even more.

So I guess the challenge for the universities is how they deal with the students coming from these different systems in STEM subjects which build heavily on previous knowledge.

Dd is interviewing . I’m so glad the wait was surprisingly anxiety inducing (particularly because I genuinely am happy for her to go elsewhere).

New to thread.

Tango, DD has also applied to Clare (different subject). She was told a couple of weeks ago that she has an interview but still has not been given a date. She did a test on Friday for her subject and is worried now that she might not get an interview after all if she did not do well enough in the test.

I have reassured her that if they have said she will have an interview then she will, but thought i should come on here and check if anyone else was in the same position and had the same worry.

I have said this before so don't want to start another row. I accept that the Scottish curriculum is different , but it isn't inferior (I teach in the English system and find it very limiting and very spoon fed! It certainly was pre 2015 reform). I do not agree that it is a one year sixth form. Highers are equivalent to ASs, not GCSE. AHs are equivalent to A Level +. The problem seems to be in maths. But I am sure lots of non Scots struggle with the entry tests when they are less than a term through their second year of A Level depending on sequencing of curriculum.

Hello WhyohWine well done on your DD’s interview.

My DD’s friend is still awaiting her interview date/time, after getting her notification over a week ago from Clare. It looks like they are just later than some in organising, but nothing to worry about I’m sure.

None of my DC so far has wanted to apply to any universities in Scotland because of the distances involved. I must say I’m glad not to have to do the treks that some of you have to undertake.

The train only takes 4.5 hours direct from Edinburgh to London. So yes, it's very far but surprisingly easy to get there (depending on where you're based of course).

Good luck to everyone with interviews!

@Piggywaspushed gosh I'm so utterly ignorant of the Scottish system. Don't they finish a year earlier? I remember a boy in my tutorial group who was just 17 because of this. My knowledge is evidently very out of date and you're not starting an argument, this stuff is really illuminating for me.

Sorry derail. Well done to all those having interviews. DS has got details of his - it's so short! And just the one with nothing else to go on. I don't know what to make of that really other than that it really has lottery elements...

@5zeds Excellent news! Congratulations to her

@WhyOhWine

New to thread.

Tango, DD has also applied to Clare (different subject). She was told a couple of weeks ago that she has an interview but still has not been given a date. She did a test on Friday for her subject and is worried now that she might not get an interview after all if she did not do well enough in the test.

I have reassured her that if they have said she will have an interview then she will, but thought i should come on here and check if anyone else was in the same position and had the same worry.

Hi @WhyOhWine welcome, DD has just this minute got the email from Clare so I suspect your DD will be hearing very soon.

Its all very real now, interview next Thursday (I am off work THANK GOD) two interviews one with a passage and one without so possibly an open conversation based on her PS. She has had a mock interview with her Politics teacher this morning and has gone into College just now to meet some other teacher to talk about the interview....I think I am more nervous than she is.

[quote Valleyofthedollymix]@Piggywaspushed gosh I'm so utterly ignorant of the Scottish system. Don't they finish a year earlier? I remember a boy in my tutorial group who was just 17 because of this. My knowledge is evidently very out of date and you're not starting an argument, this stuff is really illuminating for me.

Sorry derail. Well done to all those having interviews. DS has got details of his - it's so short! And just the one with nothing else to go on. I don't know what to make of that really other than that it really has lottery elements...[/quote]
Not so much (or just) a year earlier, also that the school intake year is different. (winter not summer)

DH very nearly went after his Highers when he would have been 16. His older brother persuaded him that it would be better to wait till the end of Sixth Year so he only had a couple of months to wait till he could make use of the student union!

Scottish courses are generally designed to be accessible from after Highers (broadly similar to the old AS) which is why English educated pupils can often go straight to 2nd year on some courses.

I can verify that the first year of a Scottish degree can be quite undemanding for an English student. I managed to get exemptions from end of year exams for two of my 3 courses and had a lovely time - the third didn't offer exemptions. I probably should have skipped the first year at Edinburgh (politics) but then I wouldn't have met DH.

But I'm still annoyed that my alma mater limits the number of RUK places for medicine and DD had to rule it out.

Aw, meeting DH is a sweet reason!

Some of the students I teach in sixth form definitely would not be able to skip a first year in Scotland. They would benefit from a transition year to be honest. They are so spoon fed these days. Quite a few posters on here have DCs at very high achieving school and might have smaller class sizes and more taught time. Honestly, 25 very mixed ability students in my sociology class on 9 periods a fortnight of teaching really aren't (Most of them ) ready to fly , despite my best efforts.

I think also it depends on the uni and subject as to how 'hard' the first year is. I had a student drop out of a degree in film because he said the first year (in a Welsh uni as it goes) was a rehash of A Level.

Without wanting to argue about the Scottish education system TOO much, Scottish students do get a year less at school than children in England.
There's an interesting article here, which says that very very few Scottish applicants get into Oxbridge (it doesn't say what the success rate is though, which would make the article much more interesting). And of those that do, 2/3rds are from private school, so a far worse state v private access rate. I'd guess that this is because some of the Scottish private schools do A'levels.
In 2019 only 11 Scottish state school pupils got into Oxford, and 17 into Cambridge.
www.theoxfordblue.co.uk/2020/09/01/north-of-the-border-oxfords-abysmal-scottish-access-record/

Conversely, historically my DH's family have pretty much all seemed to waltz into Oxbridge/the LSE from home counties stockbroker belt so I guess it is swings and roundabouts.