Economics degree without maths A level?

[Suzi69]

DS is in year 13 and is about to apply to go to university from September. The problem is that he wants to do an Economics degree but he hasn't taken maths A level The school advised him to take A levels he's interested in so he took history, chemistry and economics.

He's a little despondent as he found that the Economics courses he's most interested in at Russell group universities need maths A level. The courses he has found that offer Economics without maths A level are BA's, not BSc's. He suspects that for economics related jobs employers favor students who have A level maths. He's nervous about doing one of the degrees he's applied for as he hasn't studied maths for so long. Basically he wishes he'd done A level maths.

He's considering taking a gap year , taking A level maths in that year as an online accelerated courses and then he has a much wider choice of universities. Does this sound crazy? I don't know a lot about Economics and feel I'm not qualified to advise him.

Hi OP. If there’s any other subject he’s interested in he could look at a degree “with” Economics - eg. History or Politics or IR with Economics? May be a bit less ‘dry’ also? I think University of Bath has a few courses like this and they do placement years in the third year?

What are his predicted grades?

Otherwise yes - he can do do a gap year! Do the Maths A-level and there’s so much more to be gained from a gap year anyway. Plus sooo much easier applying with grades in hand (well, most of them in his case)!

So I've just graduated from uni doing history with economics. Unless he was getting a or a* at gcse and was able to pick it up well, DO NOT do a sole economics degree. Much of the maths isn't that hard, but you get a fraction of the teaching he'd have got at a level. I very nearly messed up my whole degree doing intro maths as I failed it, so if he wants to do it do a joint honours, make absolutely sure there is 'none maths' path he can take within it. If he does fancy that, Manchester has various options that could suit him him perfectly ( employers see economics in the title and they're happy). Happy to answer specifics.

And I thoroughly recommend a gap year, especially as low end wages are good atm.

@1u1a

Hi OP. If there’s any other subject he’s interested in he could look at a degree “with” Economics - eg. History or Politics or IR with Economics? May be a bit less ‘dry’ also? I think University of Bath has a few courses like this and they do placement years in the third year?

What are his predicted grades?

Otherwise yes - he can do do a gap year! Do the Maths A-level and there’s so much more to be gained from a gap year anyway. Plus sooo much easier applying with grades in hand (well, most of them in his case)!

Thanks for replying but he says he doesn't want to do a joint honors; he's only interested in Economics. He says he wants to do a job that's Economics related and he does seem very interested in the A level. The problem is that the maths in A level Economics is relatively easy; GCSE level, and he's fine with that; he's just concerned about the difficulty of maths in an Economics degree.

His predicted grades are AAB.

I'm fine with the idea of him doing maths A level in his gap year but also think that it doesn't fit very well with the idea of traveling later in the year.

I did joint honours in Economics and French so a BA. I didn't do A level maths (but was consistently in the top 10 out of 200 kids for maths at my school). We did intro to maths during 1st year. Apparently it was A level equivalent standard but it was much more self-taught (as you'd expect at uni). I love economics (I'd already done it at A level) and but the maths side bored me rigid so very glad I went down the BA route.

It didn't hold me back. I went into chartered accountancy with the Big Four and then into investment banking. At no point have I ever wished I did A level maths.

@Student133

So I've just graduated from uni doing history with economics. Unless he was getting a or a* at gcse and was able to pick it up well, DO NOT do a sole economics degree. Much of the maths isn't that hard, but you get a fraction of the teaching he'd have got at a level. I very nearly messed up my whole degree doing intro maths as I failed it, so if he wants to do it do a joint honours, make absolutely sure there is 'none maths' path he can take within it. If he does fancy that, Manchester has various options that could suit him him perfectly ( employers see economics in the title and they're happy). Happy to answer specifics.

Thanks for your message. He got an 8 at GCSE but at the time didn't feel confident enough to take A level maths.

He has applied to Manchester as they do an Economics degree(the BA) that doesn't require maths A level. If he gets a place he does intend taking the maths modules though because he's decided he wants to do an economics type job, and he says employers will look at the modules. He's just concerned that it will be too much of a challenge.

I see what you're saying about a non maths path though and I'll suggest that he looks closely at the modules, thanks.

What does he mean by 'an economics' type job?

I did economics at uni - the maths was hard enough when I got an A at A-level! The students who didn’t have maths A-level really struggled and due to their feedback the uni changed the requirements the following year.

He’s probably applied to the course I did at Manchester. It is a BA but there are some
Econometrics modules which are the more maths based ones. There’s a lot of choice over the modules and you come out of it with a BA(Econ).

I did AS maths (but wasn’t very good) and still managed to get a first, but I did tended to avoid the mathematical modules after first year.

I think it depends on the degree course. I did Economics and Marketing at Lancaster which was a BA (but actually because Econimucs is BA, marketing is actually a BSc). I did A level maths and hated it so avoided any mathematical modules. Economics at ather unis are much more mathsy, my friend at Leeds did ait more maths than me.

What sort of ecomics job is he considering?

Sorry - turns out I can't type straight today!

If got good degree lack of maths a level won't matter unless going into a more maths job.

Some ideas-

Look at the maths for the degree online or get from somewhere. See if daunted.

Take year out and do maths a level and see if can score job in something related to economics? Don't really know who hires them but if gets in touch says got a year, this is what doing, these are predicted grades, super interested happy to do anything to get experience. Then that will stand him in great stead when graduates. I mean it's a punt but could work!

I failed maths o level (yes I'm old ) still to this day struggle with maths. Got a first class honours degree In economics and went on the get a master's

He must speak to the course provider as some courses are more maths heavy than others

What economics type job does he want to do?
I'd recommend checking on the websites of the types of grad employers he is interested in before he stresses about taking the A'levels unnecessarily. Lots of grad employers now would only look at the degree not the A'level subjects.. but he should check if he hasn't already.

The main issue here is that he appears to have been badly advised by his school. If they knew he wanted to do a ‘pure’ Economics degree, they should have advised him to take A level maths. He probably should consider the gap year option combining maths A level with earning as much money as possible while jobs are plentiful.

My degree was Politics & Economics at an RG university and I didn’t have A level maths. I got through the maths-heavy bits with a bit of help along the way, but my weakness was algebra not stats. Had it been the other way round, I would have struggled.

Many universities have separate pathways for students who come in with or without maths A level. The modules for the ‘without’ students assume no more than a GCSE level understanding.

Some universities don’t separate out the two cohorts, but if they accept students without A level maths then, again, any first year maths module has to be pitched towards those students. From my experience, students without A level maths often do very, very well in these modules, whilst students with the A level sometimes don’t take the course seriously, and then get a nasty surprise when they take the exam.

The crucial thing is to dig into the course structures, go to open days (virtual or f2f) and ask questions.

What stands out to me from your posts is that your DS is really interested in the subject. The more a student is interested in a subject, the more engaged they’ll be with their modules, and the harder they’ll probably work. I wish him luck and hope he finds the right course for him.

@Econ

Many universities have separate pathways for students who come in with or without maths A level. The modules for the ‘without’ students assume no more than a GCSE level understanding.

Some universities don’t separate out the two cohorts, but if they accept students without A level maths then, again, any first year maths module has to be pitched towards those students. From my experience, students without A level maths often do very, very well in these modules, whilst students with the A level sometimes don’t take the course seriously, and then get a nasty surprise when they take the exam.

The crucial thing is to dig into the course structures, go to open days (virtual or f2f) and ask questions.

What stands out to me from your posts is that your DS is really interested in the subject. The more a student is interested in a subject, the more engaged they’ll be with their modules, and the harder they’ll probably work. I wish him luck and hope he finds the right course for him.

Yes you're right he has a very genuine interest in Economics, and he's been doing well at it.....but he's daunted by the level of difficulty he knows is coming.

I found your post reassuring as I do think he'll work at the modules, and at the end of the day the courses he's applying for don't require A level maths....hopefully he'll be ok.

At one stage, my DS wanted to do economics. (the taster days put him off!). He does sociology, economics and history. There were actually quite a few good universities that did not require maths A Level.

@Libertaire

The main issue here is that he appears to have been badly advised by his school. If they knew he wanted to do a ‘pure’ Economics degree, they should have advised him to take A level maths. He probably should consider the gap year option combining maths A level with earning as much money as possible while jobs are plentiful.

My degree was Politics & Economics at an RG university and I didn’t have A level maths. I got through the maths-heavy bits with a bit of help along the way, but my weakness was algebra not stats. Had it been the other way round, I would have struggled.

He was advised by the school and by myself and my parents to take A level maths.... and he didn't take the advice as schools also advise students to take A levels they think they'll get a good grade in, and he didn't think maths fitted into that category.

The real fault is the English system which forces students to select 3 or 4 subjects at an age where they shouldn't be having to narrow their options so much. If he'd been able to continue maths in the sixth form I think he'd be feeling more confident.

Thanks everyone for your input. He doesn't know what job he'll want to do; he just says he wants it to be Economics related because he likes the A level. He's mentioned Investment banking but I don't think he knows; I realize that this is not directly Economics related.

Another idea my son had was for him to touch on some of the maths he'll find in an Economics degree over the summer. Or if he does take a gap year to study some maths in that year without it being a full blown A level.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to go about this and which would be the best areas to focus on?

There are some online websites eg Uplearn which teach A level maths on a weekly basis so he could join for a few weeks but I presumably some of the maths content is more relevant than others for an Economics degree.

@HundredMilesAnHour

I did joint honours in Economics and French so a BA. I didn't do A level maths (but was consistently in the top 10 out of 200 kids for maths at my school). We did intro to maths during 1st year. Apparently it was A level equivalent standard but it was much more self-taught (as you'd expect at uni). I love economics (I'd already done it at A level) and but the maths side bored me rigid so very glad I went down the BA route.

It didn't hold me back. I went into chartered accountancy with the Big Four and then into investment banking. At no point have I ever wished I did A level maths.

Very reassuring, thanks!

@Piggywaspushed

At one stage, my DS wanted to do economics. (the taster days put him off!). He does sociology, economics and history. There were actually quite a few good universities that did not require maths A Level.

Agree there are a few and he's managed to find five to apply to but the grades needed to get into them are high.

I know that one of the pressures on him is the feeling that if he doesn't get the right grades on the day his options via clearing are very limited as the vast majority of Economics degrees need maths A level.

I think the year off with A level maths (plus work?) is an excellent one.

Edinburgh reccommend "Renshaw, Maths for Economics". They don't require A Level maths on entry but like other posters DD found the maths hard going even with the equivalent of an A at A level.

He sounds motivated so if he worked thru this or similar in the summer he should feel less daunted.

A lot depends on how good he is at maths. Some degrees are very maths heavy and they lead to jobs which are maths heavy. But the expectation, normally, to get onto one of these degrees is A* in maths if not FM. Not everyone will want to be, or is able to be, a quant.

There are lots of career openings for people with other skills who have graduated from a good University and who have a sound understanding of economics. He only needs one place, and if he has found five he is interested in applying to, that is fine. (And don't limit it to RG. Bath, say, is very good. I don't know if they need maths.) I might also broaden the search to economics and finance or economics and management or economics and politics if that is where his career interests lie.

That said, economics can be fiercely competitive, and many courses oversubscribed. Good Universities are able to demand good grades.

I might try a two tier approach. Apply now, where he can. (Only places he would really like to go to, and three or four within his predicted grades.) Work like blazes to get the best grades possible. In the meantime plan for a Plan B by researching different ways of sitting maths. Some private providers allow for tuition in 2 batches, one intense one at the start of the academic year which enables them to write an informed grade prediction, and then another intense couple of months before the A level itself, with travel in the middle. Or there will be on line options. If he does not get a place either via UCAS or clearing, launch Plan B.

You might also look at courses which have both a BA and a BSc, or perhaps joint degrees, and ask if there is any scope to switch if you choose the right courses in the first year. Big departments might have a bigger range of courses and more flexibility. But honestly I have never heard anyone say anything other than "I have an economics degree" without specifying that it is a BSc. If you have that degree you will be assumed to have the equivalent of maths A level. If an employer really wants someone technical who is adept at financial maths/statistics, they will be looking for first degrees from specific Universities (probably Cambridge, LSE, UCL and Warwick) or a good Masters.

He might also be warned that many find the maths part of economics particularly dry. Though not everyone. DS, who had never thought of himself as good at maths, found himself loving it at University, and eventually graduated in econometrics