Medicine 2022 entry

[Monkey2001]

Support thread for aspiring medics.

We want all our DCs to succeed, whatever their school type. We share knowledge to help them to achieve their goals, celebrate success and support if things don't go well.

As we press the "send and pay" buttons on UCAS, we wish all our DC the best of luck in this tough year with so much uncertainty.

My DS's friend was rejected pre-interview stage by both Bristol and Newcastle last year as their UCAT was just under the cut-offs. They were really upset but went on to get a Cambridge offer. It all ended well.

Is there any data out there about what jobs different graduates are doing 5/10 years after qualification?

So, for example, do certain med schools produce a preponderance of surgeons or GPs or research scientists or A&E specialists?

Interesting question. I don't know but I remember when looking round Birmingham being told they produced a lot of GPs.

@KingscoteStaff

Is there any data out there about what jobs different graduates are doing 5/10 years after qualification?

So, for example, do certain med schools produce a preponderance of surgeons or GPs or research scientists or A&E specialists?

@GANFYD you are the only person I can think of who might know the answer to ths question.

I know several Bristol medicine graduates; 3 GPs, 1 surgeon, 2 non surgical hospital doctors, 1 who is a clinical oncologist but does a mixture of research, teaching as well as treating patients. I think a lot of it comes down to life style choices - if you want to be a neurosurgeon or heart surgeon (like DS1) you have to be willing to go wherever in the country the jobs are and hope you're partner will come with you. If you are in a relationship, settled in a location you might be more likely to go for a less specialist job, the most flexible of all (for location) being GP.

reports.gmc-uk.org/analytics/saw.dll?Dashboard&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FNTS_LTD%2F_portal%2FNTS&Page=Specialty%20Destination&P1=dashboard&Action=Navigate&ViewState=shid3lt7nfcg9dhp4h0afmhgoa&P16=NavRuleDefault&NavFromViewID=d%3Adashboard~p%3Aevkf7qvbniab2isj

@KingscoteStaff @Monkey2001
There is a lot of info out there, but much of it is produced by the GMC, and I think you need log ins to access it. I am also not sure it goes down to detail at the level of the type of surgery, or the specific medical specialty, as it is usually done by Royal College exam pass numbers/rates.
reports.gmc-uk.org/analytics/saw.dll?Dashboard&PortalPath=%2fshared%2fNTS_LTD%2f_portal%2fNTS&Page=Main%20Menu&Done=Dashboard%26PortalPath%3d%252fshared%252fNTS_LTD%252f_portal%252fNTS%26Page%3dSpecialty%2520examinations%2520(undergraduate)%26ViewState%3dt4gqtc7pbmen33shdqo8e4vrn2
The UKFP Career Progression Report gives some crude numbers, but there is not a lot of detail.
healtheducationengland.sharepoint.com/sites/UKFPOT/WebDocs/Forms/AllItems.aspx?id=%2Fsites%2FUKFPOT%2FWebDocs%2F6%2E%20Resources%2FReports%2FF2%20CDS%5F2019%2Epdf&parent=%2Fsites%2FUKFPOT%2FWebDocs%2F6%2E%20Resources%2FReports&p=true
And there is a complex study here, that looks at some of the things offered by courses and what careers people go on to do
bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01572-3
I would say that it doesn't matter, though. All med schools are told to aim for 50% of grads going into GP, none of them make it, but it is by far the highest persentage of output from all med schools. I think the old Peninsula (now Exeter and Plymouth) and HYMS have the highest percentage (high 40s) and Cambridge the lowest (low 20s), but they all produce GPs, all produce brain surgeons, cardiologists, dermatologists, plastic surgeons, etc etc. There are opportunities for every specialty interest at every med school, so it is down to individual interest and motivation. It has been shown that more exposure to a specialty seems to increase that motivation and interest (my granny could have guessed that!) and hence career progression, but if it is there already, students can seek this out for themselves.
Birmingham might say they put out a lot of GPs, but bet they don't say they have had a below average pass rate for the Clinical Skills Assessment exam needed to become one in recent years? (though they are above average for the Applied Knowledge Test). I see this as another instance where population statistics cannot be applied to an individual - just because most people in a med school end up as GPs, there is no reason YOU cannot be a cardiothoracic head of the WHO, if you feel so inclined.
If anybody wants the specifics of particular specialties and particular med schools, let me know, and I will try and extract the information

@GANFYD That is amazing - thank you! The divide between hospital doctor/GPs on the one hand and research lab specialists on the other is really interesting.

@GANFYD, thanks, that looks very interesting, but will take my poor old brain ages to absorb!

The analysis I read from one of your links was really interesting but didn't look at how selection of medical school entrants might affect the area of medicine people choose. Obviously all the data on specialism choice is for people who applied to medicine at least 5 years ago, and I get the impression that Admissions policies have changed a lot in the last 10 years.

Surely motivation is a huge driver of career choice. I would have thought that Cambridge is less likely to produce GPs than Sheffield because they don't look at motivation for medicine at all, just ability in science, so probably produce more research focused doctors. I know from friends that many women choose to be a GP for lifestyle reasons - unfortunately, also for lifestyle reasons, most of them very reasonably choose to work part time, which means that even if 50% of medicine graduates become GPs, that does not equate to 50% of full time equivalents.

I think lots of things affect career choice, including teaching and exposure to said specialism, as shown in the linked study. Oxbridge medicine tends to be more research-heavy than most others. Motivation is a difficult one, as most applicants have no idea of what a specialty actually entails, so there is some old stuff showing most people do NOT end up in the specialty they thought they liked when they applied.
Full time is a hard one in medicine, especially GP. I nominally work 5 sessions a week, but as a Partner, would average about 35 hours a week, far more is someone is on holiday or we have rota-gaps (have just finished about a 50 hour week) - is that really half-time? As that is what most surveys would take me to be! My husband works full-time in a hospital and does about 50 hours a week (without on call, as this is very variable, so just the "9-5"). My salaried Drs, who work 1 and 2 days a week respectively, do about 8.5 hours and about 18 hours a week. A salaried GP "session" is 4 hours and 10 minutes. A junior Dr in the hospital can exception report anything over their contracted hours. A Partner and a Consultant just have to do whatever is left! I know lots of full-time hospital Consultants, but now no GPs who do more than 8 sessions a week in Practice (as a Partner). Now I suspect that says a lot about my friends, as well as the workload, but certainly a few years ago, many of them worked 5 days (usually 4.5 is full-time) plus Out of Hours.
I chose to become a Partner as it gives me an illusion of control over my working life, and actually , given I work with 1 other - very like-minded - Partner, it does work out that way. We decide our hours, what extras we take on, who we work with, the ethos of the Practice, and to a degree, how much work we want to do versus how much we want to get paid, but in the current pandemic, with a recruitment crisis, it does mean we have to mop up all the shifts there is nobody else to do, if we don't want patients to suffer. So there is a lot of bad press about "bloody-women" GPs causing the problems in access, but if "full-time" is judged as 37.5 hours, as it is in many other jobs, then most medics work that in far less than 5 days! We need to re-define what we expect them to do but mainly, we just need more doctors

Best of luck to @HoneyMobster's DD and any others waiting on Cambridge tomorrow.

(I hope you get some sleep tonight!).

Kind of you @MidLifeCrisis007 but DD is Oxford 😉

Oh silly me! I saw your name on the Oxbridge thread so thought you were still waiting! Soz!

(PS I was SOOOOOO pleased DD didn't want to apply to either after her brother was rejected by Oxford twice!).

I'm not sure there are any Cambridge applicants on this thread but maybe I'm confused as well 😂

My DD. And I’m away this week! Does anyone know when they hear? This was her “moon shot” application (but her safe choices turned out not to be …)

Oooh, good luck to her @Onewildandpreciouslife! They come through the day, both our rejections (Downing and Christ's) came fairly early in the day. The thread on The Student Room will be very busy with people saying decisions have come through.

It was a no, sadly.

Sorry to hear that @Onewildandpreciouslife

Also sorry to hear that @Onewildandpreciouslife. So many have such different outcomes second time round. I hope your DD reapplies.

There is a new thread for 2023 entry just set up www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/4459778-Medicine-2023-Entry Not much activity on there yet but I'm sure it will all kick off soon.

Offer from Cambridge arrived today🙏

Congratulations to those who have received offers😊
Still a long way to go yet though
As I said before, I've known offers on A level results day from places that have previously rejected them as candidates and another one that came thru unexpectedly in June so you never know.
What are the application numbers like this year? It was up by about 20% last year? And fewer places too. I presume pandemic still having a significant effect? It might not sort itself out this year I fear

Sorry to hear that @Onewildandpreciouslife, is she OK? Where is she with the other applications?

Congratulations @Ijw2025, big sigh of relief for you!

@withiceplease it is another bumper year, up on last year. It is possible that there will be fewer offers and greater use of reserve lists so they don't end up in the same pickle as last year.

Thanks everyone- she seems OK about it. Congratulations @Ijw2025!

Interview for Nottingham tomorrow morning is the last shot for this year, then the focus shifts onto getting the grades!

There's an apparent Bristol offer on TSR - I wonder if it's genuine or a bit of photoshoppery?

@KingscoteStaff just 1 offer sounds a bit troll-ish. I believe it when i see at least 3!