Best University History course for a state educated London boy?

[Chicchicchicchiclana]

Son would like to feel at home on a course with fellow students from a mix of backgrounds where he won't feel out of place for not having a private or grammar education. Oxbridge is already ruled out in his head for obvious reasons.

So where else is less rarified but absolutely top notch for teaching history?

Advice/opinions very welcome.

You seem a bit like a nutter. Nothing wrong with people who went to private schools.

You seem a bit like a nutter. Nothing wrong with people who went to private schools.

Except ableist derogatory language, presumably?

Things may have changed a lot in the intervening 15 years, but when I visited Oxford & Cambridge in sixth form I found it really off putting. Bearing in mind I’m totally middle class, my parents went to university etc. It just still felt totally alien because I wasn’t from the south or a grammar or private school.

And from my contact with some of the groups of students in the city where I’m from, while I was working part time serving them in shops and cafes, that put me off applying to university in my home city.

Prejudiced? Probably, but I think there was certainly a grain of truth there. Was really happy at the Russell Group university I ended up, where there were plenty of privately educated students but they hadn’t all come up from the same school and stuck together in the same groups in the way I’d seen in my home city.

Things have changed a lot in 15 years in Oxford and Cambridge.

Yes, there will always be people from grammars, private schools. But even at some private schools there is a shift to attracting those on bursaries and scholarships.

I'm from the South and went to private school - my parents hadn't got a bean. It was all bursaries and scholarships. Appearances can be deceptive. I got to my Russell Group uni and had nothing in common with some of the state school pupils who had been to Florida every year and owned designer gear. They thought I would be snobby and loaded, actually that was them!

University is a much much bigger place than school and you can always find your tribe there.

I concur absolutely with the advice for your son to study course content and the location/type of university he wants and ditch these state/private prejudices. You never know he might realise that people in all areas of society can be as nice or nasty as one another.
I read history at Oxford more years ago than I care to remember.Though I did my A levels at a private school for various reasons, I come from a very working class town and did O levels at a comprehensive. Those 3 years at Oxford were some of the best years of my life and I made friends from all walks of life. I knew a member of the aristocracy who was one of the loveliest chaps ever and plenty of ordinary people from normal schools. From an academic point of view, the rigour and the resources offered were second to none. My DS recently finished a history degree at a well rated Russell uni and I was shocked at how little work he had and how lightweight the assessment was.
He set out with an open mind when choosing courses but quickly realised he didn't want a city centre uni - hated Manchester for instance - as soon as we visited.
Education is all about opening your mind to new iideas, Now is a good place to start,

I did history at cambridge 1993-96 (rural comprehensive).

My best friends were

• one girl from state comp in Midlands
• one girl from N Yorks- state school most of the time then a levels at indie grammar
• one lad from state school in NE London
• one lad from Eton on music scholarship
• one girl from Cheltenham lady's college (music scholarship again)
• two lads who'd been to indie day schools in Kent
• one girl from state school in Wanstead

@RobinPenguins how is ‘nutter’ ableist? It means crazy, it’s got nothing to do with disabilities

If Oxbridge is 70% state schoolers why has he ruled it out!

Have a look at St Andrews. It is as good as Cambridge/Oxford but without the extra application faffing about. My DD is in second year doing Ancient History there and is very happy.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Have a look at St Andrews. It is as good as Cambridge/Oxford but without the extra application faffing about. My DD is in second year doing Ancient History there and is very happy.

Is this a joke?

He needs to be proactive and check out all the ranked lists of the best unis to go to, and ask his older friends who are at uni already.

Dd is in Year 13 and plans to study history and politics - she's made a list ranking her top 5 unis in terms of courses, student satisfaction, graduate job success, safety of the uni, nightlife... she's very organised.

Also, he shouldn't be so prejudiced! He needs to go to some open days, talk to students who are already at the uni - that's really helpful.

See https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2020/sep/05/the-best-uk-universities-2021-league-table?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

And www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings and www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/best-universities-uk

@Palavah

No, not a joke. St Andrews is usually in top 3 universities in U.K. with Cambridge and Oxford, but this year St Andrews is #1, outranking Oxford and Cambridge. Their application process is standard UCAS process for U.K. students.
news.st-andrews.ac.uk/archive/top-of-the-class/

[quote Rivermonsters]@RobinPenguins how is ‘nutter’ ableist? It means crazy, it’s got nothing to do with disabilities[/quote]
Only if you don’t believe long term mental health problems are disabilities

This is so sad, if this young man is bright enough to go to Oxford or Cambridge, he should embrace that opportunity, not assume that he won't fit in.

Also, genuinely, please suggest he thinks of people as individuals and doesn't assume that all kids from one type of schooling are the same. My lad will be going to university next year and, although he's been in a private school for the last 7 years, he's had a challenging childhood including an alcoholic dad so I've been a single mum working mad hours to keep a (very ordinary) roof over our heads and him in school. DS speaks with a local accent and is very grounded. I'm absolutely not claiming poverty, just normality, and just using him an example of the kind of person your son will meet next year. Hopefully on looking at universities he'll decide on the best and most appropriate course for him and have the opportunity to make friends from a huge variety of backgrounds.

It's not sad ffs. He doesn't want to go to Oxford or Cambridge, there's nothing sad about it. He wants to go to University elsewhere.

@Chicchicchicchiclana

It's not sad ffs. He doesn't want to go to Oxford or Cambridge, there's nothing sad about it. He wants to go to University elsewhere.

Yes, I agree it’s not sad at all. Oxford and Cambridge isn’t only place bright students go. My DD didn’t want to either as she heard that it can be very competitive/back stabbey between students and an artificially pressurised learning environment at Oxford and Cambridge. She wanted a top university but with a community and collaborative approach.

What type of history? Ancient, medieval, modern, social, political, medical, religious, cultural, any particular geographical slant? He needs to look at the course content at universities that interest him.

I think some people on here have been unduly harsh about your DS’s concerns about the type of people that attend certain unis, however I do agree with the general sentiment and your DS isn’t going to be able to actively avoid privately or grammar educated people forever in life. You say he wants a broad mix of people on his course but he’s actually automatically wanting to eliminate a large number of potential students. That won’t broaden his horizons at all. Even at the most elite of institutions you will find very down to earth people, and at normal unis there are people from very wealthy backgrounds who have experienced a totally different upbringing to your DS. He needs to concentrate on the course itself and he will naturally find like-minded friends.

@Chicchicchicchiclana

It's not sad ffs. He doesn't want to go to Oxford or Cambridge, there's nothing sad about it. He wants to go to University elsewhere.

Of course it isn't. The notion that any uni outside these two are for the runners up is quite insulting, really.

My nephew studied history at Edinburgh and had a great experience. He'd have considered oxbridge for sure but it was a bit of a no brainier to stick with a no fees option being Scottish himself. It's fine that your ds wants to go somewhere different it I do think you should challenge the 'obvious reasons' he has in his head

This is so sad, if this young man is bright enough to go to Oxford or Cambridge, he should embrace that opportunity, not assume that he won't fit in.

Someone not wanting to go to Oxford or Cambridge isn’t sad in the slightest. You can disagree with his reasons, but the idea that no other university is valid or worthy is what’s sad.

There are wider issues around Oxbridge that mean it just doesn’t suit everyone. The short intense terms for one, which can be very overwhelming. The history course is amazing in its variety but it means much of the first year at least is spent on very independent study, reliant on relationships with individual supervisors with an hour’s contact time a week often without even any relevant lectures running in the same term you’re studying a period of history. It can be difficult to meet people outside your own college in the first year if doing history and colleges can be small, so the number of people to make friends with can feel limited.

Some people absolutely thrive on all the above, but others find it hard.

The notion that any uni outside these two are for the runners up is quite insulting, really.

It’s possible you may be missing the point, slightly. The OP’s son wants to study History - the whole of humanity over time, but has already cancelled any possibility of learning with or from anyone who might have a different background to him. So he’s not approaching the subject with an open mind.

And sadness is being expressed by posters who believe it’s a parent’s job to send their child out into the world ready to take every opportunity to broaden their horizons.

And sadness is being expressed by posters who believe it’s a parent’s job to send their child out into the world ready to take every opportunity to broaden their horizons.

The person who said it was sad, said it was sad that he didn’t want to “embrace the opportunity” to go to Oxford or Cambridge. Heavily implying that choosing to go elsewhere is some kind of consolation prize.

Okay … Sadness is being implied by …

@Palavah St Andrews has a particularly good History department might not solve the not wanting to be around posh kids problem though, not that my comp educated son has found this a problem there.