Help me to help DD choose a degree. Most likely Philosophy!

[flopi77]

DD is looking at Philosophy as a degree, which is great, but DH and I are feeling a bit out of our depth. DD knows about rankings, tables etc, but all the specs for Philosophy degrees seem so similar. I thought I'd post here hoping someone might have more knowledge - where's the best teaching? I don't necessarily mean the most prestigious, more dynamic and global, rather than just Western philosophy.

Then might there be degrees which DD just hasn't thought of? She's chosen Philosophy because it's her favourite A-level, but could there be other degrees which she'd fit and just hasn't thought of. Maybe Anthropology? Trouble is DH and I know nothing about that either! Her A-levels are Philosophy, History and Sociology (AAA predictions).

Any thoughts would be great. Neither DH or I went to University, so we're feeling a bit on the back foot and sadly her school seem as clueless as us!

I did not do a philosophy degree but one with many aspects of a philosophy degree in it, I suspect it would be considered a “would you like chips with that” degree. However it was right for me and has led to a fantastic career in the third sector. I think finding a course with the elements in it that she will enjoy will mean she will gain greatly from it and use it to further her ambitions.

Jurisprudence, as part of my undergraduate degree, was the closest I got. That was decades ago. Now, in a very different, creative field, I’m elbow deep in both Epistemology and Ethics every time I put pen to paper. (Or finger to keyboard.)

Thinking ahead to her future career, what about PPE? it's the stereotypical politics/civil service route but that's a good career ambition and likely to give her a good life.

My first degree is in Philosophy, I've had a good career in the NHS as a result and I wouldn't change a thing!

I meant to add that I have had a successful (tho not especially well-paid) career in journalism, teaching (MFL not philosophy hah) and communications. I don't think any of that is because I studied phi tho. I do agree with studying what you enjoy and will do well in, but I think, as a pp says, a phi degree will need further study to take you to a career, unless the career is one for which any degree will do. In which case, crack on.

Always do a subject you like at the best university you can get to. However adding a joint honours such as History would give more options and broaden learning.

I’m sure Oxbridge Philosophy opens doors but not so sure about other universities in quite the same way. Adding in Economics isn’t really possible without maths but there are social policy degrees, and social science degrees that might be of interest. If she is bothered about a job, look at the employment stats of each course. But she should be prepared to compete for jobs against degree holders in English, History, Classical Civilization, MFLs, sociology, Psychology, Anthrapology, criminology, Politics, Law, etc etc etc. So work experience and planning ahead might be vital!

@KeepSmiling89

Oh, I'll add that I did my undergraduate degree at Dundee University...not sure if that helps in terms of choosing where to study, but I definitely had a fab experience there.

My dd also did Philosophy at Dundee ( joint honours with Film), but also studied English and Psychology in first 2 years She loved the course content as specifically wanted to study European philosophy Continued her studies with MSc at Edinburgh She's now deputy head of English language school in China

Go on open days!!!!!!!!!!

Are there open days? I notice a poster said visit 10 earlier! That’s far too many. Narrow it down to around 4/5. Then do the virtual open day! You can of course visit any city but 10 will be time consuming and expensive.

My DD is also applying for philosophy for the same reasons (favourite A level). She did also look at options such as anthropology, sociology, etc. and also looked at broader degrees such as liberal arts and also PPE at Oxford (ruled out because the people she knows who are applying are very politically active and she thought she had insufficient interest in politics). In the end she decided on philosophy, because she definitely knows she enjoys it and is good at it.

She started by making a list of the top 15/20 unis for the subject then ruled out some based on course content and others based on type of university and general reputation (both from an academic and "party" perspective!) I think she is down to about 8 now. She has not found online open days very helpful so she has gone more on word of mouth from people she knows who are a bit older or who have siblings who are a bit older plus what she can find online and from school. It would be good to do more proper open days but there have not been a huge number of opportunities.

In terms of future degrees, i think outside STEM ,very few degrees really lead to obvious career paths, and i think it is then a case of getting the best degree you can from the best university you can get into to keep your options as open as possible - lots of excellent careers do not require a specific degree.
Even with law, lots of people go into law these days with a non-law degree, and I say that as someone who did a law degree and started life as a lawyer, and have various friends who are still (now quite senior) lawyers, many of whom did not do a law degree

People always think PPE is for political types. They forget the Economics bit! Political activity doesn’t help with Economics at all. A philosophy student could certainly convert to law but training contracts are very hard to come by as far too many do law degrees, never mind other degrees! It’s very competitive!

@a8mint

Philosophy? would she like fries with that?

Philosophy is an excellent degree choice! It's definitely favoured by graduate employers

My dc is doing Philosophy & Politics. Look carefully at the Philosophy modules at the different unis and also the research interests of the staff as they vary enormously- Bristol for instance has a heavy bias towards science / maths. They also vary enormously in the amount of compulsory modules etc. They all have the different modules for the different years on their websites.

To the poster with the oh so witty fries comment you do realise that philosophy drives the majority of contemporary thinking? I would suggest that people like Wollstonecraft, Plato, Locke etc contribution to the modern world is immense.

You can do a degree in World Philosophies at SOAS, which might be worth a look for a non-Western slant. It is quite a small institution though, so not for everyone.
I know someone that studied philosophy with Chinese there (and has a high flying job now).

I would look for where the largest departments are - maybe somewhere that allows you to pair philosophy with a wide choice of other subjects (politics, economics, maths, classics, history, linguistics, computer science, languages, religion) might have a broader range of different options for modules available.

“To the poster with the oh so witty fries comment you do realise that philosophy drives the majority of contemporary thinking? I would suggest that people like Wollstonecraft, Plato, Locke etc contribution to the modern world is immense.”

Quite. And I wonder if they’d have made the same remark to Socrates.

Not sure we need go all the way back to the Enlightenment. There’s a least one vigorous thread in the here and now on Amia Srinivasan’s and her new book ‘The Right to Sex’. Possibly a more accessible role model. (Whether or not one agrees with her thesis.)

@SkinnyMirror

Are there stats that back up your assertion about employers favourIng philosophy grads? The IFFS don’t really concur with that. Employability for non science grads is not just about degree studied. Not at all.

Has she thought about law? There is some crossover with critical thinking and frankly, she will be far more employable.

How would she be more employable unless she continues to professional qualifications, taxiforme? I don’t see how a bare law degree - without more - confers any advantage over a philosophy degree.

[quote TizerorFizz]@SkinnyMirror

Are there stats that back up your assertion about employers favourIng philosophy grads? The IFFS don’t really concur with that. Employability for non science grads is not just about degree studied. Not at all.[/quote]
While not a STEM degree per se - philosophy is the basis of all science. It’s the art of knowledge and logical reasoning. Philosophy graduates have very strong critical thinking and reasoning skills. Their grasp of logical, deductive and inductive reasoning is as strong as that of any STEM student.

They make excellent programmers 😉

Also adding OP - what aspect of philosophy does she enjoy?
Some branches of philosophy such as logic overlap a lot with mathematics. Others are more of a ‘humanities’ subject but AFAIK most first year modules will include the study of all 4 branches, logic of which is one.

Lots of good suggestions so not going to repeat them, but another degree to consider is in Classics or Classical Studies if she at all likes the Ancient European philosophers of Greece and Rome. She has grades for best school in UK
www.st-andrews.ac.uk/classics/prospective/ug/

My daughter wants to study philosophy at university and is one of the brightest people I’ve ever met. She’s looking at oxbridge and Russell group with 3 a* predicted but probably joint with politics

@EdmontinaDonsAutumnalHues

How would she be more employable unless she continues to professional qualifications, taxiforme? I don’t see how a bare law degree - without more - confers any advantage over a philosophy degree.

I get what you say.

There is a broad range of thinking parcelled in a law degree from philosophical to highly commercial and I believe it's a better scope if you are not really sure what you want to do.

I say this as I didn't know what degree I wanted to do. Philosophy, psychology, sociology, criminology, history, english? Law had it all.

At the end of the day, what gets you anywhere is who you are and not what you do and....making complicated things simple.

@taxiforme.
I agree with what you say. Converting to law can be expensive if there’s no employer to pay. No guarantee of a training contract or pupillage. There are thousands of law degree holders who never become lawyers so they are seeking employment in many other areas of work.

There might be science in Philosophy but employers know it’s not maths or engineering! Regarding employability it’s about the same as history and a bit better than English. That might reflect it being more of a RG subject and that fairly bright people take it. However getting a job isn’t purely about subject when you are competing against English. history, Law and psychology etc grads.All these grads will be fairly equal in prestige of subject. It’s what you have over and above your degree that will matter!