One hour a fortnight F2F for £9k

[GaribaldiGirl]

My daughter did the first year of her degree from home. Going into the second year all students were told they were ‘expected to be in Edinburgh’ from September. So we’ve paid a deposit on her flat and she went off this weekend, so excited to be finally going.
Today she discovered that as well as her lectures all being online, she has just one hour of face to face contact a fortnight. And all the Welcome Week stuff she was excited about has limited numbers and needs to be prebooked and, yes you’ve guessed it, it’s all full.
It’s so utterly rubbish I despair. Surely this isn’t right?!
Are other universities back to normal?

Madness. Edin has just had a busy festival, cinemas and theatres are open yet the uni/gov is taking this approach. Students need to protest and not pay - what else can they do?

The issue here is the students are enrolling and confirming the student finance for uni fees prior to being told about the dwindling f2f. To be brutally frank Universities are deceiving the students.

I've managed to get hold of all the press contacts for education in the daily newspapers and will write a circular email when I return off holiday. Warwick students have managed to get over 2000 of signatures so far. I personally would target the building work on site at Warwick and other universities effectively stop the contractors working and also prevent external people attending the conferences etc by blocking the entrances.

I'm sure there must be some parent lawyers out there that can start proceedings to get fees refunded.

Daisyway is this all Warwick courses? DD is heading to Warwick on Friday and had been told all tutorials would be F2F. She is doing joint honours Maths and philosophy.

One of my twins is also about to start at Warwick, doing history. He was browsing optional modules he needs to choose from and at least one stated that only 50% of seminars would be F2F, and quite a few others still have details TBC.

He already knew lectures would be online but is concerned about this, especially as the blurb about this one module was dressing it up with talk about the academic value of this new way of working.

An email he received from the history department months ago, before he'd firmed Warwick, gave a different impression: I can't remember the exact wording but it certainly implied that seminars and tutorials would be F2F unless there were new restrictions. I'll be very unimpressed if there's been an about turn on this.

I think this is the problem @LoonvanBoon The students don't know exactly what they're getting until they get their personal timetable, by which time it's way too late as they're already on campus!
Most are expecting, and would be happy with, 50/50 but many are finding they have much more online than in person.

I’m an academic at Edinburgh (name changed for this). Last week I met all of my personal tutees face to face in my office, except for a few who haven’t yet made it back. I was involved in a welcome event where we did building tours for first and second years, gave an opportunity for them to meet societies linked to our school and gave out free food (which was well attended). Our first years will be in for two hours a week for seminars and workshops in groups of up to 48, total class size is around 500. That’s just one of the three subjects they will be studying. That’s about 2/3 of the usual amount of contact time but a lot more staff time.

One thing to note is that the students’ personal timetables have not been fully published yet. Most will be pretty blank after next week’s introductory sessions, especially if they only selected their courses last week.

All my tutees have said how happy they are to be back. Many have said they prefer recorded lectures, for very rational reasons. They are all looking forward to being back on campus. There is a good atmosphere on campus.

@RosamundAtherton the wifi issue sounds awful. DD has just started at a fresher at Glasgow but there is Ju issue with wifi in her halls at all and she has had a f2f meeting with her adviser in her faculty this week.

Would a mobile wifi dongle help solve the Internet issue? You would need to find out which mobile provider would give your DD the best signal in her halls and then buy the relevant device. You will then have to top up with data as she uses it so it won't be a cheap option.

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/mobile-wifi/broadband/mobile-broadband/571443432080xxba00011132-bv00309062/xx-criteria.html

@RosamundAtherton does your daughter have a port in her room which she can plug her laptop into with an Ethernet cable?
My DD had this last yr so she was connected directly into the university system (was in university owned halls)
This improved the speed compared to the standard WiFi she used for her phone.

Perhaps we need to get a group petition together with all our students names and signatures and send it off to student finance stating that the students no longer authorise payment of the fees to the universities and they wish the payments to be recalled if paid... After all its the students monies not student finance and there must be some form of breach taking place.

@RosamundAtherton last year they provided Ethernet cables to enhance bb in halls, probably as so many were accessing lectures online. Might be worth her asking the RA if similar is available,

@RosamundAtherton. Edinburgh were meant to be upgrading their Wifi in all accomodations. Ask your DD to reach out to whoever is their Resident Assistant. DD had issues last year and IT provided her a booster (room tucked in the corner of a very old building) and she found using an ethernet cable connection improved things. DD also noted that wifi was much improved when the gamers went home at the beginning of December. Does her halls have a computer room. I know not ideal but DD found it useful to use these computers or those in the library when she needed to run some statistical software on large datasets.

I’ve been hearing from uni friends that the timetabling and room allocation is a mess due to more students than planned and social distancing. So here we are mid sept and they don’t all have a plan - yet they managed to get the invoices out. It’s very poor. At the very least drop the 1 metre rule. Students have a very high uptake in vaccination and if concerns surely ask them to wear masks rather than just don’t bother with f2f.

@RosamundAtherton

Thank you for all the suggestions. I have a good list of potential solutions to work through. Boosters, dongle, Ethernet, pestering the resident assistant. We will get there!

All of these are good ideas! Basically, the uni is providing teaching online (doesn't really matter how much - it is uni policy that some will be online) so they need to ensure all the students can access this when on campus (as instructed they should be). If uni facilities aren't good enough, they need to resolve it. It may also be worth mentioning the poor connectivity etc to her personal tutor. They may have a bit more clout with IT etc. Even if it's just getting her an ethernet cable and helping her set up.

Last year on the first day of term, the uni teaching system crashed. It was inevitable really, and I can't understand why they hadn't planned for that (everyone logging on on the first day for lectures... Who'd have thought?!) So hopefully that won't happen again . Also, for a December exam, when all students had to download question papers/ upload scripts in a set time period, the internet in the halls of residence died. Which was helpful... The department allowed everyone more time - but it's so frustrating to be so reliant on technology which is so creaky and utterly out of your own control.

Yes if unis don’t have the IT infrastructure in place they can’t shift to online. There is a lot of noise about ‘it has so many benefits’ but clearly not if students can’t access it

Rosamund my son just finished in Bristol. He used to do just about all his work in the library - went almost every day all day with his friends. Is there a way your daughter can go to (or book in advance if you have to book nowadays) and watch stuff there with headphones? The advantage of that is the wifi will be good presumably and secondly it is more social to leave the bed room and go somewhere to watch the lecture or session which ought to be in person?

(My post grad law twins are really glad to be back and I see from this coming week the timetable is FIVE two hour face to face sessions in person with their lecturers and the other 11 in their group all term other than a kind of half term and mock exams week and they are very lucky. The place has been closed to people for 18 months so it is a bit change for their lecturers as well. No masks in the groups are worn except one girl wears hers, and one lecturer so far is choosing to put his on which is fair enough and up to him as long as they can understand him and hear what he says).

I assume that Unis will be providing free eye tests for all students who are on line for more than a few hours a day ? Legal requirement as an employer so I'd hope they'd be as responsible. Lots of eye strain issues among DD and friends last year.

I've suggested to my DD that they all take their laptops and sit together to watch lectures - in the lecture theatre. It's empty 😊

mum - that is a huge issue with one of my sons actually. He always read from books in the library. His course 100% online last year was very hard for him and he had to set a timer every hour to take an eye break. This year the law school has sent everyone a box of printed materials, some books (real physical books) but there is still lots on line and they have a choice of online or in person exams (my twins have chosen online exams as it worked fine the last 2 summers and you don't risk train delays and can type rather than handwrite exams). He (or rather I) just spent about £400 on his new glasses and spares and tests and he says he thinks one eye is still not quite right so is going to get yet another test done but I don't mind spending the money if it means he can get through the year and pass the exams.

Mine by the way had no trouble last week going into the library (without booking) when they had nearly 5 hours between sessions and even when they left to eat lunch in a square outside they still could get a space when they got back but this is not useful for anyone else as it is post grad law, not undergraduate. (And they still have not had notice of their 2020 Bristol graduations which I think we will have to write off really and we did a grad picture in my old gown hood and mortar board so we kind of have a "graduation picture" I suppose.)

They will need to provide proper chairs and desk space too if they are insisting on them being on campus

New that is the issue - for many the university cell like room is smaller than i n a prison which is fine if you spend all day in the library and lots of the night out with friends. it is totally different if you haev to watch things on line there. I would have thought they could put up big screens in lecture hall where students could go to watch them even if the lecturer is in absentia in their own home or office on the campus. jMy son's last year was 100% online and his bed room was not big enough for a desk in his shared flat. He came home for his exams for the bigger rooms and wifi - not something all students can afford and many students do not have suitable places to study or work at home either.

My daughter has just gone off to uni as a first year and looking at her timetable she has one tutor meeting on line and the rest have room / building info on them do must be in person. We’re hoping so anyway. They have laid on quite a few in person social activities in the department too. So she’s happy. This is England not Scotland.