One hour a fortnight F2F for £9k

[GaribaldiGirl]

My daughter did the first year of her degree from home. Going into the second year all students were told they were ‘expected to be in Edinburgh’ from September. So we’ve paid a deposit on her flat and she went off this weekend, so excited to be finally going.
Today she discovered that as well as her lectures all being online, she has just one hour of face to face contact a fortnight. And all the Welcome Week stuff she was excited about has limited numbers and needs to be prebooked and, yes you’ve guessed it, it’s all full.
It’s so utterly rubbish I despair. Surely this isn’t right?!
Are other universities back to normal?

Can she double check to make sure that's all correct? Like a PP said, timetabling fucks up all the time.

It's definitely very poor. We're in London and my uni is back fully f2f.
Even when we thought we would keep large lectures online, there would be a weekly seminar for every module.

This sounds completely out of kilter with the rest of the sector, though it sounds like it may be specific to Scotland? I teach at an English university and my students (humanities subject) are getting 6-8 hours a week f2f, plus two hours of online lectures a week. I don't know any academics who aren't doing almost entirely f2f this year. We still have social distancing where I work, but it's a large campus university with extensive conference facilities that we can use, so much easier to do than for older universities, which often have more cramped facilities.

Edinburgh is such a clusterfuck of a university now. Senior academics wrote an open letter to the vice chancellor asking him to resign.

My DD is at Edinburgh as well. Rent is extortionate in Edinburgh - if DD wasn't doing a year abroad, I doubt she'd have gone back. Lucky for her the exchange university take the attitude everyone has had their chance to be vaccinated, they'll do what they can with cleaning/distancing, but it's business as usual and everything is face to face.

That's really bad. My twins post grad law is 8 hours face to face a week. They had the first day earlier this week and it went very well. I was so pleased after a 100% online last year they were actually getting to see some other students and getting to know lecturers. (One lecturer used a mask in the group of 13 students and the other not. Only one of the 13 students is in a mask in the classroom - where masks are voluntary by the way).

Well Scot gov have announced today universities going back with social distancing and face masks.
No large in person lectures and up to each institution how they offer blended.
Scot Gov very keen on keeping some restrictions in place so for those of you with kids at Scottish universities don't hold your breath for things improving

And the advice in Scotland is still to work from home where possible so some institutions may be following this.

@Xenia I'm really pleased to hear that about your sons, I remember from previous threads you were quite worried for them

Yes, this last academic year they did not meet a single student on their law conversion course and it was 100% online so this year is much better. They were also able to choose a group which is on two days a week so 2x 2 hour sessions on each of the 2 days for this term so they only have to go into London (they are living at home this year) twice a week so so far it has all worked out fine although the leaving at 7.30am start tomorrow might be hard!

Is your DD's course one that is very dependent on large lectures @GaribaldiGirl? While I think Edinburgh could have done a great deal more, courses that are very dependent on large lecture teaching are really hamstrung where they need to maintain social distancing and/or limit the number of students in rooms.

We have this problem as we have modules where two thirds of our teaching time was previous done in lectures of up to 400 students. While we have converted as much of the lecture time as we can to smaller group teaching for less than 50 students to allow us to do it face-to-face, we simply don't have the staff or room capacity to do that for all our teaching. We are, however, offering a lot more face-to-face contact than one hour per fortnight.

DS1 started at Edinburgh this week and it's not clear there will be any in person teaching at all - even his 1-2-1 tutor meeting is not being held in person. Needless to say if we had known this we would never have sent him there. People really need to name and shame when universities behave in this way - completely ripping off students and condemning them to a year closeted in dorm rooms staring at Zoom to 'study' while in the meantime it's apparently no problem for them to go out to nightclubs and mix freely with as many people as they wish regardless of vaccination status or Covid checks. It's hard not to think that Edinburgh is just taking advantage of the situation to soak kids for fees and rent while offering as little teaching as possible to save money and perhaps mask the fact that they've enrolled too many students. Doubly frustrating as the university were messaging all along (to the extent there was any communication) that there would be plenty of F2F teaching and activities this year and therefore students needed to be on campus. He's doing a practical subject and it's looking like 1 or 2 labs per semester will be the extent of it. Basically just online courses, at vast expense. It seems the university is not accountable to anyone - certainly there is no acknowledgement that they're offering a disappointing and sub-standard experience, or that the students have a right to expect something more than online classes.

You can complain to the Office of the Independent Adjudicator. See here: www.oiahe.org.uk/about-us/our-scheme/

Being misled into paying for accommodation that your DCs don't need is serious. I would give complaining a try. Many students could travel to Edinburgh for a once a fortnight face to face, and save a lot of money living at home.
I'd also query how hardcore their Covid measures actually need to be.

If you want to register a complaint about a Scottish University you need to go via the Scottish Ombudsman:

www.spso.org.uk/spso

That sounds so poor. I would resent paying £9k for that.

(My uni experience was early 90's and I was the last year who never had to pay fees)

[quote Bratnews]If you want to register a complaint about a Scottish University you need to go via the Scottish Ombudsman:

www.spso.org.uk/spso[/quote]
If it's anything like the English system, you presumably have to have gone through the University's complaints procedures before going to the Ombudsman.

@MizZan

DS1 started at Edinburgh this week and it's not clear there will be any in person teaching at all - even his 1-2-1 tutor meeting is not being held in person. Needless to say if we had known this we would never have sent him there. People really need to name and shame when universities behave in this way - completely ripping off students and condemning them to a year closeted in dorm rooms staring at Zoom to 'study' while in the meantime it's apparently no problem for them to go out to nightclubs and mix freely with as many people as they wish regardless of vaccination status or Covid checks. It's hard not to think that Edinburgh is just taking advantage of the situation to soak kids for fees and rent while offering as little teaching as possible to save money and perhaps mask the fact that they've enrolled too many students. Doubly frustrating as the university were messaging all along (to the extent there was any communication) that there would be plenty of F2F teaching and activities this year and therefore students needed to be on campus. He's doing a practical subject and it's looking like 1 or 2 labs per semester will be the extent of it. Basically just online courses, at vast expense. It seems the university is not accountable to anyone - certainly there is no acknowledgement that they're offering a disappointing and sub-standard experience, or that the students have a right to expect something more than online classes.

Oh, ffs, this is awful for him. I'm actually really embarrassed at Edinburgh (though I don't think it's only them in Scotland). They have been insistent for ages that students (and staff) should be present on campus, and have been telling departments that a certain amount of teaching has to be in person, though obviously that depends on the nature of each course. If all the teaching takes place in groups of over 50 that isn't allowed to be in person (SG guidance) - so they are kind of stuck. Though online teaching seems to take at least 3 times the time in person teaching takes, so it's really not a cost cutting exercise!

But for a practical subject to offer so little face to face seems they really aren't upholding their part of the bargain. Is he sure all the courses have been correctly allocated yet, as that doesn't sound right at all.

Also, another possible wedge is Sturgeon's announcement today that "physical distancing will be maintained on campus". That's not in the current uni guidance, which recommends it as a possible voluntary extra, but doesn't mandate it. DHs department had originally planned for 1m distancing in tutorials/ labs, based on the anticipated number of students (and that was the law in Scotland at the time). But they ended up with many more students than expected - but as the 1m had been dropped for Scotland by then, they were able to fit them in at just less than 1m. If NSs announcement today is an actual change to the guidance (which is statutory here, so effectively law) they won't be able to hold the planned classes, so they will have to go back online. It would kind have been nice for the unis to be warned of this BEFORE welcome week, if it is the case. And, as per usual, the webpage with guidance hasn't been updated to make clear whether today's announcement or the current guidance is the relevant one to follow...

@MizZan I feel for your son. Has he managed to get onto any of the Welcome Week events? My daughter says the activities are at 25% normal capacity because of number restrictions and all the students going into year 2 as well as the freshers are booking in. So there will be a very large number of students not getting a welcome at all!!!
My daughter was a fresher last year and after 3 weeks in her room in halls she came home, so upset that she couldn’t make it work. I felt annoyed at the time that we’d had no warning that there would be no face to face and that all social mixing was banned, including sitting at single tables in the dining hall and security roaming the campus breaking up any groups. It was beyond cruel. I suppose at the time there was no vaccine and the epidemic was in full swing so looking back I should have guessed it would be awful.
I got a full refund on her place at Pollock Halls and she spent the year at home doing everything on line. Not remotely worth £9250.
This year she is in a private flat so we have committed for a year. Much better in some ways now as they can go out this year - bars and restaurants are open and she has her housemates. So I think she will stay.
However part of me wishes she had dropped out last year and applied to an English University. If we’d known it would be mostly online this year I think she would have given up on Scotland. So I feel they have been dishonest. She is vaccinated, most the students are vaccinated. Transmission rates are very low amongst vaccinated adults. It just doesn’t make sense, it’s completely out of proportion. And it’s costing our DC both financially and in mental health terms. They need to mix and make friends!!!!
I am not allowing her siblings to go to a Scottish University. It’s completely put me off.

I have a teen who is in first year at Strathclyde on a science based degree. He's been told he will be in for 3 times this semester.

Luckily, he is living at home. I would be LIVID if I were shelling out £150 a week for accommodation for him to be in three times. It's just not good enough.

DS struggles with social stuff and getting to know people, this start to the session which will have him sitting in his bedroom staring at a screen is just awful. His age group have had their Highers fucked up, their last year at school fucked up, their first year at Uni fucked up. They've played the game and got the vaccine. And being punished in return.

This time last year I was wondering if having DC 2 away from home with the cost of halls etc was a good idea
But I worked out,she made friends and had some of the Uni experience,unlike her friends who stayed at home who had a really poor existence
The Unis need to get there collective fingers out

Dd (also Edi second year) is expecting a couple of hours f2f at least, and hopes to finally meet her personal tutor in person next week. It varies from one module to another. She knew a few weeks ago that her lectures would be remote if 50 or more attendees but intends to go into the faculty study space or library to watch.

She has already been to some Welcome week events but also found others had sold out quickly. I'm not sure why your dd is locked into a 12 month accommodation contract. Scottish lets seem much more flexible although if one leaves the remaining occupants would need a new contract. Most landlords would break it for the summer as they can re-let for the festival season. It is not ideal but a vast improvement on last year.

And dd says some venues are accepting Walk-ins for events although many are prebooked only and full.

DP works at a central London university and DD is going into her second year at a different university, not in London - so we can see both sides of the coin. There are a lot of arguments going on with academics and unions about being made to teach maskless students face to face - DP is slightly nervous too, after 18 months working from our spare room. But he recognises what a shit time the students had last year and knows he's got to get back to it. He feels that he's had a very easy pandemic when others have been on the front line in supermarkets, healthcare, schoolteaching etc - it doesn't feel like a huge ask for him to get back to doing his job when he's been able to hide away from the world for so much of the pandemic to date.

@phphion We are, however, offering a lot more face-to-face contact than one hour per fortnight.

Thats not true.... My dd is at Warwick and she had most of her tutorials f2f last year now its down to 50 percent which is 1hr per fortnight!

6 Labs through the whole of the year and all lectures online.

All because Warwick have taken in more students this year..

I was specifically talking about my department, @Daisysway. I don't have any input into the activities of other departments.