Oxford v Cambridge: how do applications balance out?

[FingernailNibbler]

Silly question. Because you can only apply to Oxford OR Cambridge, how do applications stay stable year on year, or are there sometimes swings in preference (and do they cause panics at the unis)?
Do things stay stable because of students' preferences for the city/campus/vibe/course structure and content?
Do students sometimes try to play the numbers game and apply to one despite personally preferring the other? But does that just ensure a swing the other way the following year?

I looked at stats for one subject for 2020 (not an ideal year to compare thanks to inflated final acceptance rates, but couldn't find stats for Oxford 2019 by course). The numbers are amazingly close.
*MML 2020
Cambridge *
378 applications / 193 offers / 187 acceptances
Oxford
406 applications / 177 acceptances *
*
If just 50 C applicants had chosen O instead, it would be very unbalanced:
C 328
O 456

How is the balance in other subjects?
How do sixth forms/ O and C manage this?
Do you think it will ever become possible to apply for both Oxford AND Cambridge?

Watching

Seems so many superb candidates rejected by Cambridge this year that Oxford would have been delighted with. And vice versa.

I guess "might have been delighted with", not "would have" but I bet loads would have had offers.

I doubt if there would be much overlap, as so many courses are different between the two eg. NatSci at Cambridge, chemistry or physics at Oxford, HSPS at Cambridge, PPE at Oxford.

The subject you have used for comparison seems to have a very high acceptance rate compared to many. DD's subject has a ratio of 9:1.

DD looked at both and decided that she preferred Oxford. Her sixth form had little involvement in her application and wouldn't have tried to influence her either way.

Neither actually accepted a huge number more than usual last year. The frightening one was actually UCL, as shown in this article today.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/may/15/uk-top-universities-fearful-of-extra-student-numbers-if-grades-stay-high

Year on year for a long time now Oxford has had more applicants per place for almost all subjects with a tiny number of exceptions such as NatSci, Engineering etc.

Thanks, @Hoghgyni
I hadn't realised so many subjects were actually different in structure. I did know HSPS and PPE (which to me seem completely different kinds of subjects).
What about something like maths. Would the application numbers be fairly even between the schools, year on year? I just wondered if it was some kind of fluke that approx equal numbers split between choosing one over the other.

Thanks, @goodbyestranger I didn't realise that. I was wondering about things like for maths, are the applicants roughly even between schools and does it fluctuate some years. Back to stats page

Interesting Q

Maths 2020
Cambridge
applications 1633 / offers 548 / acceptance 251
Oxford
applications 1829 / acceptances. 207

Not sure what it means, except yes, lower acceptance rate at Oxford.

Law
Cambridge applications 1537 / offers 287 / acceptances 262
Oxford applications 1611 / offers 244

See, that's really close; 1537/1611
How does that just happen?
And what happens if it gets more unbalanced? How would they address it or would students change and apply for the other? Or would it increase the prestige of the more popular uni, and mean more of a skew the next year, and so on?
I think they're both great cities and unis, just curious how the applications divide so 'evenly'?

It's weirdly steady in terms of almost all subjects having fewer applicants per place at Cambridge FingernailNibbler.

Either Cambridge applicants are too dim to look at the stats or they're too bright to care.

It is curious how it divides up. I suppose the similarity of the reputation, the courses and buildings and to a lesser extent the towns means that it's 50:50 for a lot of applicants means it naturally roughly balances out. Unless you're after a specific course, if you like one, you're probably going to like the other. Where applicants live may be a factor in deciding they're going to go for one over the other.

Going solely by the three sets of figures you've provided here, Oxford is the harder one to get into. Made less offers than Cambridge despite receiving more applications. If I was applying for a course that was similar at both I'd favour the odds for Cambridge.

*Oxford applicants not Cambridge :)

@goodbyestranger

It's weirdly steady in terms of almost all subjects having fewer applicants per place at Cambridge FingernailNibbler.

Either Cambridge applicants are too dim to look at the stats or they're too bright to care.

GS I am too dim to even know what you mean by this post!

@goodbyestranger

*Oxford applicants not Cambridge :)

Ahh I see.

Yes apologies I was distracted by dishing up cauliflower curry and the rice boiling over.

We did privately think during the application process that D1 would have been better to go for single Hons at Cambridge (as DH had done) success rate 28%, rather than the joint Hons she applied for at Oxford (success rate 11%) and C is a lot easier for us to get to. But it was the course she wanted to do and it wasn't offered at Cambridge. Fortunately she got in. One of her friends from school is doing HSPS at C - not offered at at O. From her year at school, 3 got into Oxford and 5 got into Cambridge. They had a school trip taking in open days at both so I think after course considerations, people just chose the city &/or college they liked the look of.

I don't think people will ever be able to apply to both. The algorithms would be a nightmare. At the moment a very large majority of those getting an offer from one or the other will firm that university but pretty much only Oxford or Cambridge can say that. If you could supply to both then they wouldn't have a clue who preferred them over the other.
In normal years dd's (state) school has over 25 people going to Cambridge and about 5 to Oxford. DD has an offer from Cambridge this year.
I know that she and her friends feel/felt that Cambridge is more inclusive and diverse than Oxford. I have no idea whether they are correct. She preferred the city and the course. She would not have applied to Oxford even if she could apply to both - she really wanted to go to Cambridge but not because it's "Oxbridge" but because of the city itself.

@FingernailNibbler

Maths 2020 Cambridge applications 1633 / offers 548 / acceptance 251 Oxford applications 1829 / acceptances. 207

Not sure what it means, except yes, lower acceptance rate at Oxford.

Cambridge requires STEP for maths which puts some off, I think. Offer grades in general are a bit higher at Cambridge, which again may have some effect.

Oxford may have more applicants but can be less competitive for many subjects.

Less stellar students can throw their hat into the ring and apply for Oxford because they meet the typical offer. Cambridge may not be an option because it requires higher grades.

I would imagine that the reason more apply to Oxford for most subjects is simply that applicants don't realise that there tend to be fewer places and so just pick the uni/ city that they prefer.

And of course they might well not alter their choice if they did know, given the general level of achievement.

The standard offer at Cambridge isn't that much higher, also Oxford interviews far fewer applicants, so I doubt that the numbers are accounted for by a slew of lower achievers - that would be fairly risky, given the tougher Oxford process for getting to interview.

I don't think it's 'lower achievers' but possibly there may be some who are a bit risk-averse who might be put off by the lack of wiggle room on the Cambridge offers.

Ds is planning to apply to Cambridge because we live in Oxford. There's probably a chunk of applications like that.

I agree course structure has a lot to do with it. DS wanted to study physics. If he went to Cambridge he would have had to apply for Natural Sciences and continued with Chemistry/ Computing. Similarly DD has applied for Earth Sciences at Oxford. She would also have has to go for Nat Sci at Cambridge.

Plus Oxford is far easier to get to for us!