How on Earth do a level lower achievers get to uni with the grades that are being asked?

[NCTDN]

If I wanted to go to uni now, I'd have no chance. In my day, I needed three E grades to get into teaching, from which I've had a fabulous career.
DD is very lucky and looking at places asking for 3As (Not teaching) but I'm so shocked at how high everywhere asks for. I went to what was primarily a teacher training college and even that is asking for 3 alleged at grade b.
So my question is, what do teenagers do these days if they get grades C D or E? It must be so disheartening.

It does depend on the subject, but I have taught many less academic students who have worked really hard at A Level and achieved a C grade. I think the vast majority of subjects have at least 70% of students achieving a C or more.

Until recently the AS year filtered out many students who would have struggled to get a D or E. They either dropped out after failing the AS or retook the whole year. Of course, resitting individuals units also helped students o push up their grades.

I don't think A levels are any easier now than they were, but students are most certainly better prepared for them. I don't even remember seeing a past paper at A level when I sat them in the late 1980s. Now, even if their teacher hasn't done a lot of past paper work conscientious students can find all past papers mark schemes and examiners reports online.

I stand by my previous post - almost any student prepared to work hard can get at least a C in most subjects.

I'm glad I'm old!

I took the entrance exam for Oxbridge (one of the two), did well in that, and only needed to achieve 2Cs at A'Level to confirm my place.

To PP who do not think A level underachievers should attend university. There are many reasons why an A-level candidate may not perform well under exam conditions on the day. It is not necessarily an indication of their overall intellect. This should not exclude them from higher education/ university. It may be that they have to take a different path to get there but it shouldn’t discourage them if that is their goal. Sometimes time and emotional maturity are all that is needed.

@Tambora

Surely if you are only getting C, D or E grades then you aren't really bright enough to go to university and study at degree level.

Goodness. Have you not considered other factors might be at play? Literally so many things could have an affect on exams yet you think it's down to intelligence only? That's not too bright of you

I didn't say there was o grade inflation Piccadilly. I disputed that an old school E would be a B now, as someone asserted. There has been an increase in top grades but 'exams getting easier/standards dropping' is not the only factor.

I teach a media subject : there doesn't appear to be grade inflation on your table.

I think one of the main reasons kids get higher grades now is because they are better prepared for exams. In my day (and admittedly a different system) we were never set targets, had no idea what was required to get a particular overall grade. You could argue that teaching to the exam has its downsides of course. And I would say that my kids work a lot harder at school & uni than I did!

Grades used to show how you did relative to everyone else who took that exam, and now they show whether you reached a preset standard, regardless of how everyone else did.

That really isn't true. There is still a bell curve. If 100% of students reached some mythical standard, grades would still be applied to top, middle, bottom, rightly or wrongly. Grade boundaries change every year.

I'm just about to graduate and because I'm a gimmer I had to do a foundation year (despite already having level 3, it was too long ago) the 19 year olds in my year whose A levels weren't all that were on foundation for that reason. All of us who went onto a niche vocational degree have jobs lined up paying graduate salaries.
Its really not the end of the world if you pick a degree with niche employability opportunities. I'm not knocking those with talent who end up in top universities. My sister has a telephone number salary from her stellar A level grades and RG degree. I'll never get there but my life has improved tenfold as a result of my former HE college education. The soon to be psychology graduates who were on my foundation have less certain outcomes. Choose your degree wisely.

Surely if you are only getting C, D or E grades then you aren't really bright enough to go to university and study at degree level.

Depends, I got Cs and Ds, and now have a first degree and two Master's with distinctions. I was living with domestic violence and a father who wouldn't let me do the subjects I wanted to do.

I really do hope parents don't spout about grade inflation when their DCs bring results home!

Why not? My dc can see the statistics themselves. An A star didn't even exist when we were at school .

There's also been grade inflation with University degrees. The proportion of First Class degrees has increased massively, That's no secret either, and my dc are well aware of it.

A*s were brought in to recognise a need to differentiate the very most able. When your DC brings home an A at A Level , please don't tell them 'oh well, that's really a D'. I am more than sure you wouldn't.

In all my years of teaching, a student has never said to me 'oh well, it's really easy to get an A, as the statistics suggest'. Some students expect to get Cs/Bs without doing much and are surprise when they gets Cs/Ds/Es and there is a sense of entitlement to pass.

Surprised some offers were so low for different subjects, I didn't know that. I applied in the 1990s and my offer for MFL at Edinburgh was BBB. My backup offer for Warwick was BBC. I got AAA so went to Edinburgh.

Didn't know anyone who went to university with D and E grades, but maybe that's cos all my friends were arts rather than sciences.

@Violetlavenders

I really do hope parents don't spout about grade inflation when their DCs bring results home!

Why not? My dc can see the statistics themselves. An A star didn't even exist when we were at school .

Because it would be a really negative reaction to their achievement.

@flashylamp Yes, I do think that other circumstances can also affect a student's performance on exam day. I experienced it myself when my dad died a few months before my exams and my mother had a nervous breakdown and ended up in hospital. I got taken into care.

The majority of students won't have anything quite as drastic happen to them.

However, generally speaking and on the whole, it would be ridiculous to suggest that you don't need to be intelligent to study at degree level.

[quote Tambora]@flashylamp Yes, I do think that other circumstances can also affect a student's performance on exam day. I experienced it myself when my dad died a few months before my exams and my mother had a nervous breakdown and ended up in hospital. I got taken into care.

The majority of students won't have anything quite as drastic happen to them.

However, generally speaking and on the whole, it would be ridiculous to suggest that you don't need to be intelligent to study at degree level.[/quote]

Literally nobody said that though

My friend did a teaching degree at a RG uni with DDD in the early 90s.

Another friend got AAAA (one was General Studies) and she was a complete and utter boffin who went on to study medicine.

We all went to a grammar school. Very few people got As at A Level. Grades were much lower than they are now.

I would say that, given sixth forms are usually quite selective about entry requirements on to A level courses, it should be generally expected that the vast majority of A level students would also be suitable for university study. When I started teaching it was quite common for students to scrape on to A levels and then drop out or get Ds and Es across the board. In my experience, those days are gone - those students don’t get to the end of the course as they’re routed on to vocational courses, put on to a level 2 year to improve their skills before level 3 study, or monitored closely if they have extenuating circumstances. Certainly by half way through the first year you could expect every student on an A level course to pass and to get a reasonable grade, or they just wouldn’t be allowed to be there. It’s harsh at first but overall I think it’s a better system as it does mean students are on more appropriate courses for them. It baffles me that in my sixth form days it was routine for students to go two years getting Es and Us and nobody every said anything about it! Who does that help?

Tambora, yes of course one would need a certain level of intellect to undertake a degree. I was merely pointing out that A-levels are not necessarily the best indicator of academic ability. If you have dyslexia for example (or other learning differences) A-levels may not be the best path to a level 3 qualification. Perhaps an advanced B-Tech or AVCE or NVQ would be better options as these are assessed differently. Being dyslexic and not great in exam conditions does not mean you’re unintelligent. It simply means that certain ways of learning are not suited to you.

In 1979 my AAB was so rare neighbours came up to me in the street. I was top of my year at university , sat for and won a 3 year academic scholarship before I started etc etc and read law and went into law.. Neighbours had said I should take a year and apply to Oxbridge (no one had been there from my school and I didn't). My children's father (1970s too) got a more usual B D E and went into teaching.

A levels early 80s. Humanities course and BBC required. Looked up same course, at same university- BBB now.

With classifications, only one person got a first in our subject that year and pretty much half and half 2:1 and 2:2 for rest of us.
Remember that well as a Professor said firsts only for those that deserved them and only one did!

My son has low A levels But has thrived at uni. Yes they take students with lower A levels but sometimes they the ones that thrive on the right course. . Did very well after the first year. Mangaged to tranfer on to the integrated master course. Which he is finishing at the moment. Not sure how long take him to get a job in this climate when he finishes. But know he done himself proud. He went to the University which was the right fit for him even if during covid he done part from home.

@Violetlavenders - I got three A’s at A level and then a 1st when I graduated in the mid 90’s. DT’s both got three A*’s and a first when they graduated last year.

We have a family joke that my grades are better than theirs as I did them years ago. They aren’t - we got the same but times are now different and you can’t compare one generation to another.

@Northernsoullover

I'm just about to graduate and because I'm a gimmer I had to do a foundation year (despite already having level 3, it was too long ago) the 19 year olds in my year whose A levels weren't all that were on foundation for that reason. All of us who went onto a niche vocational degree have jobs lined up paying graduate salaries. Its really not the end of the world if you pick a degree with niche employability opportunities. I'm not knocking those with talent who end up in top universities. My sister has a telephone number salary from her stellar A level grades and RG degree. I'll never get there but my life has improved tenfold as a result of my former HE college education. The soon to be psychology graduates who were on my foundation have less certain outcomes. Choose your degree wisely.

I have a 20 year career as a psychologist thanks to my psychology degree. What's wrong with studying psychology? It's a broad discipline with feet in both arts and sciences camps. I think it's an excellent degree.

Degree inflation incredible - 2:ii used to be what most people left with - a first was rare. The number of students gaining firsts now is far larger. The number of firsts from universities where grades on entry are low I think employers rightly now look at the whole package use gcse, A levels and degree