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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Another year online?

785 replies

Ellewoods20 · 05/05/2021 17:42

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

OP posts:
Xenia · 09/05/2021 18:41

I don;'t agree that people can refuse to record lectures. If you put it in the employment contract then they can be made to do it surely. So at the very least for newly hired people you could put it in.

Etulosba · 09/05/2021 18:42

The best thing is force staff in, make them press record when they start speaking and then off when they stop (just like many lectures before covid) and then those students who want to turn up can attend and those not can listen after.

I run a module with five hours of lectures and thirty hours of labs and seminars. Next year, it will be five hours of pre-prepared online lectures and thirty-five hours of seminars and labs.

I'm not expecting any complaints from students.

DelBocaVista · 09/05/2021 18:42

@Xenia

I don;'t agree that people can refuse to record lectures. If you put it in the employment contract then they can be made to do it surely. So at the very least for newly hired people you could put it in.
They absolutely can refuse. It's their intellectual property.
Etulosba · 09/05/2021 18:48

So at the very least for newly hired people you could put it in.

In the next few years at least, where are these newly hired people coming from? Most unis are currently actively shedding staff, not recruiting.

AllThatisSolid · 09/05/2021 18:50

But that's a function of the pandemic and Gov rules. Not the lecturers

This.

It's the pandemic.

AllThatisSolid · 09/05/2021 18:54

And what a stunted education they are going to receive.

It's one year out of three (or four or five, depending).

DelBocaVista · 09/05/2021 18:57

In the next few years at least, where are these newly hired people coming from? Most unis are currently actively shedding staff, not recruiting.

Excellent point.

AllThatisSolid · 09/05/2021 18:59

The best thing is force staff in, make them press record when they start speaking and then off when they stop (just like many lectures before covid)

Don't be daft. This would be illegal. Staff have intellectual copyright over their lectures, and cannot be forced to record them in the way you suggest.

And I think "forcing" employees to do this would be cause for legal action.

titchy · 09/05/2021 18:59

@Oblomov21

No titchy. I do know, had grasped that different courses had varying different aspects.
But no course, to my knowledge, is lecture only. That was my point. ALL courses from this Autumn can be expected to include in person teaching. It may not be the actual lectures (it may be though) but it will be the seminars, tutorials, library sessions, labs, studio, practicals, placements - all the other things that make up a programme of learning.

Unless something happens with Covid of course.

titchy · 09/05/2021 19:00

@Xenia

I don;'t agree that people can refuse to record lectures. If you put it in the employment contract then they can be made to do it surely. So at the very least for newly hired people you could put it in.
For some reason I thought you were an IP expert? Maybe I got that wrong.
KittyMcKitty · 09/05/2021 19:21

I’ve found this thread monumentally depressing on many levels including the idea that RG universities don’t need to try very hard because of their name!

My children (doing GCSEs and a levels this year) had live, interactive online teaching from day one of lockdown and will categorically say that it is not as good as in person teaching on many levels- breakout rooms are not the same as being with people and there is not the same opportunity for sharing thoughts and developing ideas.

Yes I can see the benefit of being able to rewatch a lecture you attended in person and I have done tgat myself but there is also huge benefit to actually attending lectures - meeting real live people, building connections with them and getting to know them so that you then feel yiu can work together collaboratively - all this is lost when things are online - that casual remark over a cup of coffee afterwards which can spark a whole chain of thought.

Much seems to be made of the fact that practical / lab work is ftf- great so we’re creating a 2 tier system where those subjects get lots of contact and humanities get to watch something online and subsidise the cost of science courses.

My eldest has offers to study philosophy and politics (deferred entry) but nothing I have read here indicates that those in HE see that just sticking on a few pre recorded lectures is anything other then selling these students short.

I’m sure many in HE are working very hard but the system has failed many, many students! It’s ironic that universities can’t run ftf lectures but I work in a secondary school and am going to spend several hours tomorrow morning in a hall with 150+ students!

DelBocaVista · 09/05/2021 19:29

It’s ironic that universities can’t run ftf lectures but I work in a secondary school and am going to spend several hours tomorrow morning in a hall with 150+ students!

I find it frustrating that people don't understand that universities have different rules and restrictions compared to schools.

I would love to be back teaching large groups in lecture theatres but I'm not allowed!!!

titchy · 09/05/2021 19:33

great so we’re creating a 2 tier system where those subjects get lots of contact

That's always been the case though! I had three hours a week (Humanities); STEM has always had far more contact hours. And some departments have always cross subsidised others!

RampantIvy · 09/05/2021 19:38

including the idea that RG universities don’t need to try very hard because of their name!

I'm also getting that impression. DD's RG university was great at refunding halls fees, but she and all of her friends (across a range of subjects) are feeling depressed and unmotivated because they feel so unsupported by the university. She is in her second year BTW.

CovidCorvid · 09/05/2021 19:41

@Xenia

The best thing is force staff in, make them press record when they start speaking and then off when they stop (just like many lectures before covid) and then those students who want to turn up can attend and those not can listen after.
Ime it's not the lecturers dragging their feet. It's much higher up at the University. Certainly the case for me and my colleagues. They're forcing us to stay at home.
AllThatisSolid · 09/05/2021 19:42

Much seems to be made of the fact that practical / lab work is ftf- great so we’re creating a 2 tier system where those subjects get lots of contact and humanities get to watch something online and subsidise the cost of science courses

This is not an accurate understanding of teaching in universities. Most Humanities subjects use a wide range of teaching modes. From lectures to seminars, to workshops, to very small group work, to one to one tutorials.

Please read what the actual working university academics are saying on this thread.

FHOJfinf18 · 09/05/2021 19:44

I think people really have to realise that keeping schools open was also vital for the economy and kids welfare (sort of though I dont think that was too much of a consideration). Universities - the teachig part at least- are mostly not a vital service.

Vital services when it comes to unis were the covid labs etc and those mostly stayed open throughout.

KittyMcKitty · 09/05/2021 19:45

titchy I understand that STEM has always had more contact but by taking the ftf lectures away from humanities subjects they really are being left with very very little and I do believe universities need to have some honest conversations with themselves as to whether they are offering a good product and value for money!

DelBocaVista yes I get that there are different rules - you’ve mentioned it before 😂 but surely yiu must agree it’s idiotic!

AllThatisSolid · 09/05/2021 19:47

I’m sure many in HE are working very hard but the system has failed many, many students! It’s ironic that universities can’t run ftf lectures but I work in a secondary school and am going to spend several hours tomorrow morning in a hall with 150+ students!

We're in a pandemic - there are laws which have an impact on how we can teach, in terms of distancing etc.

And university is not school.

KittyMcKitty · 09/05/2021 19:52

AllThatisSolid you don’t need to be rude and defensive! I was of course aware that we are in a pandemic and that a university is not a school - but thanks for clarifying 😀 however the intention is that all restrictions are lifted from June with large sporting events, concerts, theatres returning to normal which raises the question as to why universities are not planning on returning to normal?

AllThatisSolid · 09/05/2021 19:53

And as for the difference between HASS and STEMM contact hours: a lot of STEMM contact hours are labs, where students work on specifc exercises & activities, supervised by lab techs and often postgrad teaching assistants. Supervised, not intently taught in that the students are doing the work, overseen by staff (and not always lecturing staff).

This is entirely appropriate to what the students need to learn.

In the Humanities, often what students need to learn is through a lot of reading. Now, I could gather all my students together in a "lab" for 8 hours of reading, supervised or overseen by me. We could all gather physically in a big room, and read. (It would have the advantage that I would know that they'd at least read the set material). Actually for most of my modules, they'd need to read for nearer to 2 full days.

So we could do that, and that would be contact hours.

But it would be ridiculous.

See why you can't compare different disciplines, which require different modes of learning? There are some types of learning/teaching in common as well, of course.

AllThatisSolid · 09/05/2021 19:55

I was of course aware that we are in a pandemic and that a university is not a school

Well, if you know those things, I'm not sure why you posted as if you didn't...

KittyMcKitty · 09/05/2021 19:59

Ok so the replies from HE staff are even more depressing- I have no idea why it called for the superiority and sarcasm? Obviously I understand the difference between STEM subjects and humanities so I don’t really know what the point of the comment about reading in a lab was about other then to show your superiority? My point- I will repeat it - is that for humanities taking away ftf lectures devalues the offer and significantly reduces the time those students spend with their peers and reduces their ability to get to know others - no wonder they won’t chat in a break out room!
If you’re spending hours in a lab with your peers you have the ability to form relationships with them.

Why have all HE staff who’ve replied to my comments been rude and defensive- it was uncalled for!

KittyMcKitty · 09/05/2021 20:02

@AllThatisSolid

I was of course aware that we are in a pandemic and that a university is not a school

Well, if you know those things, I'm not sure why you posted as if you didn't...

In the well worn words of many MN posters “did you mean to be this rude?”
DelBocaVista · 09/05/2021 20:02

yes I get that there are different rules - you’ve mentioned it before 😂 but surely yiu must agree it’s idiotic!

Well why compare the two and slate universities for not doing the same as schools?
You can't blame universities for following the rules that are specific to the sector.