Return to university

[SouthCoastShell]

I've just watched all of Boris's announcement and he doesn't mention when students can return to university. Does anyone know when students are allowed to return?

In my experience, the older the students are the less they seem to mind before 9 and after 6. Our normal day is 9 to 7 for undergrads but I have had 3rd and 4th year students in at 8am and after 7pm

@CovidCorvid @changi last year students went because they were promised blended learning - until they signed their contracts when it all changed to all on line.
This years 13 are wiser and lots are talking about not going to Uni at all as it's a waste of money if just going to sit at home. May as well sign up to OU and work at same time. Yes they've all accepted their offers - doesn't mean they will go. They are watching this closely.
Even with distancing some f2f could be run now - seminars, tutorials etc, but in lots of Unis there is still nothing.

😂😂 seems Uni staff enjoying remote teaching as much as school staff. I still have to do both at the same time as lots out isolating again. Hate it and will burn Teams when this is all over.

My son has given up on going back. He's been home since Dec 11th. He did his course from home this past term but it's been almost non-existent.

It's an Arts course, but he says he doesn't need access to studio space for this last term for his subjects, term effectively ends in May, so he isn't bothering. 4/6 in his flat are back but he hadn't made friends with anyone in the first term 😕 so he figures he may as well sit at his PC in our dining room as sit alone in his room 75 miles away.

Don't know when we can retrieve his stuff, mind. And I'm a bit worried they'll do what a few unis did last year and chuck the students' stuff into skips.

[quote mumsneedwine]**@CovidCorvid* @changi* last year students went because they were promised blended learning - until they signed their contracts when it all changed to all on line.
This years 13 are wiser and lots are talking about not going to Uni at all as it's a waste of money if just going to sit at home. May as well sign up to OU and work at same time. Yes they've all accepted their offers - doesn't mean they will go. They are watching this closely.
Even with distancing some f2f could be run now - seminars, tutorials etc, but in lots of Unis there is still nothing. [/quote]
Yes, Kingston duped their students, too.

There won’t be empty uni courses. People said this last year. I’m sure some people took a year out but courses are full. There’s always plenty of demand.

I'm doing some research at the moment with current year 13's and I'm asking them about their university choices. The vast majority are saying that they are still planning on attending university.
There won't be empty courses and PG courses are seeing bumper applications.

@changi

They are however bowing to union staff pressure to stay online as some staff seem to prefer it.

Where are you finding this information?

Uni staff I know (we live in a uni city), news articles and some high profile people on Twitter eg Stephen reicher. Some don’t live in their uni towns so staying working from home works for costs and convenience.

@Morred

We can't teach entirely f2f and maintain social distancing - there just isn't the room space. (Our core lectures have about 400 students. The largest lecture theatre, with social distancing, allows about 80-100 students in. So that means we'd have to quadruple our workload and the largest rooms are booked solidly 9-5 in normal times, so if many courses need 4x that, it becoms impracticable even teaching 8am-8pm. I can't imagine students would be wild to have a lecture 6-8pm either; there is normally obviously reduced attendance at ones that start at 9am...)

So maybe it's time for SDing to go in university, the same as in schools. Surely if it's safe for sixth formers to do it then it's not much different for students. Some are the same age.

Masks, ventilation, sanitisers and twice weekly testing.

@Phphion

The government is only responsible for the social distancing guidelines. Except when they have explicitly forbidden face-to-face teaching, they have no control over whether a university teaches online or face-to-face as long as they keep within the guidelines. So it is not for them to announce whether most teaching will be online or not.

Whenever it has been allowed, our students have received two thirds of their teaching hours face-to-face. The cost to our staff and the university of doing this has been enormous, but very few people would want it to have been done differently.

Understood. I think this discussion is now about Sept and moving forward. We are in a very different place and unis seem out of step now with rest of uk’s plans.

@CoffeeWithCheese

We have a few staff desperate to get back to face to face who've requested ALL their stuff is face to face next year as they hate online... and a couple who I think will need to be crowbarred out of their houses into the office (and it's the ones with the really crappy internet connections who are techno muppets desperate to stay at home!)

All I want is some transparency from uni about what the split is going to be and that I'm not going to be expected to log on from home, then on campus an hour later for live stuff, and not kept in the dark until it's too late to suspend the year easily - like happened this year. And an end to Blackboard Collaborate - preferably with fire, spikes and doom.

That seems a balanced view ^^ and certainly what I hear talking to friends at the uni

@Miljea

My son has given up on going back. He's been home since Dec 11th. He did his course from home this past term but it's been almost non-existent.

It's an Arts course, but he says he doesn't need access to studio space for this last term for his subjects, term effectively ends in May, so he isn't bothering. 4/6 in his flat are back but he hadn't made friends with anyone in the first term 😕 so he figures he may as well sit at his PC in our dining room as sit alone in his room 75 miles away.

Don't know when we can retrieve his stuff, mind. And I'm a bit worried they'll do what a few unis did last year and chuck the students' stuff into skips.

So did St. Andrews. My science student was told f2f tutorials from week 4. Nothing.

Brighton is hoping for 19th.
I spoke to someone in Campus accommodation yesterday, after I emailed on Tuesday. They've been superb.
I also emailed the Brighton and Hove MP but only got an automated reply back.
For some of us, it is the difference between our DCs continuing with their degree ( and all the associated, crucial life skills that come with that) and abandoning it.
It's truly dismaying.

@changi

In my experience, the older the students are the less they seem to mind before 9 and after 6. Our normal day is 9 to 7 for undergrads but I have had 3rd and 4th year students in at 8am and after 7pm

DS (first year) has 9am lectures six days a week. Some of these are pre-recorded and released earlier, so he starts watching the first one at 8am every morning (Monday to Saturday) so he can fit in more studying. One of his weekly supervisions last term was 6-7pm (I think in order to accommodate the time zone of the other student attending).

What he would like for this term is what he had in the autumn:

• large lectures online (48 lectures still to go)
• some of his lab practicals face-to-face (4 weeks of these still to go)
• some of his supervisions face-to-face (he thinks he has 20-30 of these this term)
• permission to live in college, while keeping to social distancing guidelines.

He particularly wants to know whether he will be allowed back to his room (where he can study more easily). His university will not make the decision until the government makes theirs.

The stupid thing about the delay in information is that it's got the potential to "cause" another spike if huge numbers if lots of students all go back at the end of next week.

In "normal" times, lots of students would never be at home at the moment anyway - they'd have stayed in their Uni accommodation over Easter.

If students had known that they could go back after Easter, many would have gone back this week, thus spreading out the timing of the return.

As it is, if lots are waiting until next week's announcement by Boris, then no doubt it will take the Unis a few days to make their decisions about a return, so it pushed it all right back to next weekend where large numbers of students may end up moving around the country over just a couple of days.

@Oneearringlost

Brighton is hoping for 19th. I spoke to someone in Campus accommodation yesterday, after I emailed on Tuesday. They've been superb. I also emailed the Brighton and Hove MP but only got an automated reply back. For some of us, it is the difference between our DCs continuing with their degree ( and all the associated, crucial life skills that come with that) and abandoning it. It's truly dismaying.

Yep, that's exactly the position my son is in. He's very 50:50 at the moment about whether to carry on next year. He's had virtually no F2F teaching (none of his lecturers have set foot on campus). His flat had to isolate for 2 weeks last October, then there was the November lockdown, so he barely left his flat in the first term. Some of the "lectures" have been simply recordings of last years' "real" lectures so no interaction etc. He did get to take part in one group task but over half of his group were Chinese living in China and none of them engaged at all, so instead of a group of 8, there were only 4 of them, but they weren't allowed to meet (due to November lockdown) so it was a damp squib. Such a shame as he worked really hard to get good A levels as he'd been wanting to do this degree for years and it's probably all going to come to nothing for him.

DS's university has now given up on the idea of waiting for the government announcement. He received an email from the VC this morning.

'Despite our hope that the UK government might indicate how the easing of restrictions on 12 April would apply to universities, no further details have been made available about the return of students for in-person learning and teaching. Like all of you, I am disappointed by this uncertainty...

[section about the position the university is taking]

'It now appears unlikely that guidance concerning in-person teaching at universities will change before Monday 17 May, at the earliest...
The government has promised to issue additional advice “at the end of the Easter holidays”, and we will continue to update you as soon as more information is available.'

Reading between the lines, he sounds quite exasperated.

@Ironoaks

DS's university has now given up on the idea of waiting for the government announcement. He received an email from the VC this morning.

'Despite our hope that the UK government might indicate how the easing of restrictions on 12 April would apply to universities, no further details have been made available about the return of students for in-person learning and teaching. Like all of you, I am disappointed by this uncertainty...

[section about the position the university is taking]

'It now appears unlikely that guidance concerning in-person teaching at universities will change before Monday 17 May, at the earliest...
The government has promised to issue additional advice “at the end of the Easter holidays”, and we will continue to update you as soon as more information is available.'

Reading between the lines, he sounds quite exasperated.

Interesting. I’ve written to my MP (and dd is doing same) to ask what is going on.

Yup, completely with you user191
All the things we hoped for our children are in the balance.
I have to remind myself that there are more chances than what I have always embraced, the A levels, uni/ professional qualification route, and to stand back and observe the options. But for my DD, I think the 'softer skills, like confidence, learning indepedence, articulacy, friendships etc...are more valuable than the degree itself. And that is hanging in the balance.
I could, and have, cried for them.

I heartily wish all our children here a swift return, a happy, enriched next few years and happiness. Oh, I so wish that, our poor youngsters.

It frustrates me that my dd uni hasn’t actually asked what they want for next year. She was sent a very loaded survey about online provision which didn’t give space to ask for face to face. Such spin. I’m sure other unis have asked havent they? So they have something to take to gov to get this right?

I did that yesterday too, Newgirls

A simple 'would you prefer f2f or on line next year' should suffice. Shame NUS is no longer so strong - were a militant bunch in my day.

Please email your MP to ask for urgent clarity from the government about this summer term!

@Newgirls

It frustrates me that my dd uni hasn’t actually asked what they want for next year. She was sent a very loaded survey about online provision which didn’t give space to ask for face to face. Such spin. I’m sure other unis have asked havent they? So they have something to take to gov to get this right?

The only people asking US what we want has been one of the new uni marketing staff who has asked for people to sign up for focus groups. SU are busy complaining and wanting the university renamed (seriously - can't that battle wait a couple of years while we get the horrendous student experience issues sorted out) and useless.

Except it wouldn't @mumsneedwine. We have surveyed the students in our department. They said:

• definitely want face-to-face seminars.
• definitely want face-to-face practical sessions.
• definitely want online lectures, split on whether this should be a live streamed lecture (which is difficult technically) to allow people to attend in person. Preferences were very mixed across the various options on how lectures should be delivered. What they most want is for all their face-to-face activities to be on the same day(s), which is not possible.
• definitely want to be able to choose whether to see their tutor online or face-to-face for office hours, dissertation supervisions.
• prefer guest lectures and seminars to be online, except those involving employers which they moderately prefer to be in person.
• majority would like to maintain no-contact-Friday. This is where they had no face-to-face teaching on a Friday which we did for health and safety reasons. It is unlikely to be possible for logistical reasons when we return to a full timetable.

The university also did a survey and some focus groups with students and will do another survey next term after it has completed its consultation with both academic and administrative staff to get a better understanding of what is possible under different control measures.