Return to university

[SouthCoastShell]

I've just watched all of Boris's announcement and he doesn't mention when students can return to university. Does anyone know when students are allowed to return?

@Phphion

Except it wouldn't *@mumsneedwine*. We have surveyed the students in our department. They said:

• definitely want face-to-face seminars.
• definitely want face-to-face practical sessions.
• definitely want online lectures, split on whether this should be a live streamed lecture (which is difficult technically) to allow people to attend in person. Preferences were very mixed across the various options on how lectures should be delivered. What they most want is for all their face-to-face activities to be on the same day(s), which is not possible.
• definitely want to be able to choose whether to see their tutor online or face-to-face for office hours, dissertation supervisions.
• prefer guest lectures and seminars to be online, except those involving employers which they moderately prefer to be in person.
• majority would like to maintain no-contact-Friday. This is where they had no face-to-face teaching on a Friday which we did for health and safety reasons. It is unlikely to be possible for logistical reasons when we return to a full timetable.

The university also did a survey and some focus groups with students and will do another survey next term after it has completed its consultation with both academic and administrative staff to get a better understanding of what is possible under different control measures.

That’s good. Let’s hope more do - and fast!

@Phphion neither of my 2 have been asked anything. In fact one was told they were going to leave it on line next year, no consultation. Students have now written very strong letter to Vice Chancellor and course leader saying No. We pay, you teach in person as normal. Maybe if you've got mature students they might like remote but the majority of undergraduates want to have the social side of University too. I really don't understand how this can be surprise.
As all academics must have gone to Uni would they really have preferred to spend 3 years in their bedrooms learning alone ?

@Phphion and did you tell the students that all lectures are recorded normally so you can watch them back, as well as being live ? Because many don't know that and do like to be able to rewatch in own time. But also like being there.

DD used to have 9am lectures daily. Lectures were only given in person and not recorded before Covid. She likes being able to speed up /rewatch the online versions but really misses the occasion of being in the lecture theatre with her cohort.
DS (a fresher) has yet to experience a ftf lecture but sees it as part of the core University experience.

@ofteninaspin all my DDs lectures were recorded (just slides and voice). She used to go, make notes on slides, ask questions and then rewatch a few days later.
F2f teaching is best, as a teacher I appreciate this so much. I really really hope Unis get back to normal ASAP, by September definitely. If Reading festival can run then not sure how a full lecture hall can't 🤷‍♀️. Vaccinations will be finished by the new academic year.

[quote mumsneedwine]@ofteninaspin all my DDs lectures were recorded (just slides and voice). She used to go, make notes on slides, ask questions and then rewatch a few days later.
F2f teaching is best, as a teacher I appreciate this so much. I really really hope Unis get back to normal ASAP, by September definitely. If Reading festival can run then not sure how a full lecture hall can't 🤷‍♀️. Vaccinations will be finished by the new academic year.[/quote]
Exactly.

If "some" students prefer online, i.e. mature students living close to their Uni, then Uni's need to think about that, but the vast majority will be younger and wanting the full "Uni" experience which includes proper lecture etc. Uni's should provide what the majority want and not try to stealthily go online because a minority of students prefer it.

I think Unis have got away with it this year because of the lockdowns etc which meant lecturers couldn't have happened anyway. Because of that, students have, by and large, accepted online. But once everything else is opened up during Summer, Unis won't get away with anything other than the normal Uni experience in October!

As time goes on, surely all students who want to go back should make full use of the "struggling to study at home" exemption. What worked for a while isnt working now, you dont have to have a mental health condition or live in a small space with no proper internet to apply this "test".
It isnt really to do with online lectures but being ON CAMPUS or near, to be part of the social experience.

Absolutely 100% agree Nettleskeins

[quote mumsneedwine]@Phphion and did you tell the students that all lectures are recorded normally so you can watch them back, as well as being live ? Because many don't know that and do like to be able to rewatch in own time. But also like being there. [/quote]
Yes, that is how we usually do lectures. They can attend in person and/or they can watch a recording. All our first year students can't actually fit in the lecture theatre we are usually assigned without some of them sitting on the stairs and floor, so we rely at least 20% of them not turning up in person even in normal times!

What we have never done, even during the pandemic, is to allow them to watch lectures live-on-line. The university says the technology cannot cope with so many students watching live, so if the students want that, we have to make our case to IT services soon and hope they can come up with a solution.

@Phphion That is exactly how we do lectures too. Live lectures are not encouraged as the technology can't cope with the numbers. Plus, there is an issue with time zones which isn't generally a problem in schools and colleges. I had some poor students attending live seminars from 2-4 am their local time.

1-3 am

GMT +8 hours

I'm a little confused why universities are surveying students to find out what model they prefer. I assumed students were moved to a blended model because of the Gov requirement for 2m distancing and then wholly online due to lockdown?
So surely the model of delivery is dictated by the regulations at the time?
Are some universities planning to change their model even once regulations are lifted?

Fortunately a couple of my colleagues are early risers and have been running 7am seminars for the students in China, etc. most days since the first lockdown.

@wooliewoo It is 'learning from the pandemic'. We would not have considered doing anything online before the pandemic as we had no experience or expertise and often also no technology. Now we do, so we are surveying the students to find out what they want from what we can now offer.

I don't know a single lecturer who would prefer to keep teaching online if there were no pandemic-related concerns. It is a very much worse experience for lecturers, it is more work, the technology is infuriating and it is exhausting and depressing trying to engage with a wall of silent blank screens.

This ^
The only bonus that HAS come out of it, is being able to have guest lecturers without the expense of having to fly them in and put them up for a few days, even if they can persuade someone to fly in from another country and all the time that takes. People working collaboratively on projects from different countries can now video conference their expertise in much more easily.

Our year 13s are talking about not going this year if it's on line again - there will be some empty Uni courses if they follow this through.

There was a lot of talk of that with last year's Yr13s. Indeed, around this time last year the chatter was about no-one going.
Then
People realised it wasn't about a choice between a "normal" university experience or the strange one our students are experiencing now. It was a choice between being able to go to University, live with other young people, and study for a degree against sitting at home in your bedroom with your parents for company and nothing to do. Once that was realised, students overwhelmingly decided to study.

How can my DDs go to the pub, go on holiday, go shopping but not go to a lecture ?

Whereas, funnily enough dd was talking to me yesterday about the two holidays she had booked for after her A-levels last Summer being cancelled and also about how she'd only managed to visit one pub in her university town, I can tell you she has had a very full timetable of lectures all year. I've not been able to go to the pub, shopping or on holiday since 1st November, but lectures have continued.

Yes, Kingston duped their students, too.

Nobody 'duped' anybody.
This time last year, we ALL thought everything would be alright be the Autumn of 2020. Every theatre ticket I had booked was being rearranged 'for the Autumn'. Every wedding was postponed until the Autumn. Funerals that couldn't happen were promised to be replaced by a memorial service 'in the Autumn'. Universities were told to prepare 3 options for their teaching - fully F2F, fully on-line, and a blend, as, AT THAT POINT nobody had a clue we'd still be in this position a year on.

@Nettleskeins

As time goes on, surely all students who want to go back should make full use of the "struggling to study at home" exemption. What worked for a while isnt working now, you dont have to have a mental health condition or live in a small space with no proper internet to apply this "test". It isnt really to do with online lectures but being ON CAMPUS or near, to be part of the social experience.

Yes definitely. But also face to face is so important for labs, drama, music and just general working together. They can go back but they also need assurance that the lecturers etc will too.

@wooliewoo

I'm a little confused why universities are surveying students to find out what model they prefer. I assumed students were moved to a blended model because of the Gov requirement for 2m distancing and then wholly online due to lockdown? So surely the model of delivery is dictated by the regulations at the time? Are some universities planning to change their model even once regulations are lifted?

Yes woolie. Seems some unis are staying with a blended or zero f2f model. But not really telling students that with real clarity and honesty.

Are some universities planning to change their model even once regulations are lifted?

Some are definitely looking at what worked well during lockdown. I have already mentioned that I will be keeping the weekly online Q&A sessions specific to each module I run.

All of the uni staff I know have said they prefer to stay online! Yes they say the tech is rubbish but no commute works for them. Also easier to manage around kids in two cases.

So I think there is real resistance by some to not go back to f2f and saying ‘students prefer it’ to win their way. They all live within about 20 min from the uni too 🤷‍♀️

@changi

Are some universities planning to change their model even once regulations are lifted?

Some are definitely looking at what worked well during lockdown. I have already mentioned that I will be keeping the weekly online Q&A sessions specific to each module I run.

This what we're doing too. There have been elements of online delivery that have worked really well and we would like to keep. I think a blended approach will become more common.

Incidentally, if I wanted to get rid of all f2f teaching once Covid restrictions have lifted at my institution that would involve a full revalidation of my course as it hasn't been validated to run completely online. To do that I'd have to offer up some justification and 'I want to wfh' would not be sufficient.

I have no issue with different delivery models that are now available. I think this is an excellent idea to meet the needs of wide range of students if it can be delivered.

However the course must be advertised as such so individual students can make an informed choice. My DC course is still advertised for sept 2021 start as full time, on campus........

I did a post registration taught course at university a number of years ago. But I knew, although it was "taught", it was mainly online learning when I signed up to it. The taught part was 2 sessions per month. This suited my circumstances at the time. It is not what my 18 year old would choose though!

Unless they are going fully on-line, no university can say with complete confidence how teaching will be delivered from September onwards. We could be in the middle of a third wave, we don't know.

It’s about clarity isn’t it. For the new students deciding what to do and where to go for sept they can make informed choices.

Saying ‘students prefer it’ is the reason being used rather than ‘I want to work from home’.

@Phphion

Unless they are going fully on-line, no university can say with complete confidence how teaching will be delivered from September onwards. We could be in the middle of a third wave, we don't know.

Zoe research email today was saying a third wave unlikely now for the uk based on the figs and vaccine roll out. Amazing but true.

@Phphion

Unless they are going fully on-line, no university can say with complete confidence how teaching will be delivered from September onwards. We could be in the middle of a third wave, we don't know.

Exactly.

Unlikely is not definite.

Once we are back to normal times, to get a course revalidated as a solely online course, you lecturer friends will have to prove, with actual hard data, that 'the students want it' (amongst other things). Course (re)validation is an onerous process involving a lot of data and passing through several different assessment committees at different levels in the university. It is not just a case of saying 'I fancy teaching online' and then doing it.