To think universities should state separate entry criteria for Indies?

[Wacamole]

DD who is on track for 3A*s at A’level, thought she’d give Oxbridge a go after being encouraged by her teachers. All very excited, doing super curriculars etc. Only just been told she doesn’t meet minimum entry criteria that would be expected from an Indy, which is straight 9s. She doesn’t have straight 9s, she has straight 8s (couple of nines), not only that, the course she wanted to apply for at Cambridge doesn’t require Maths at all, but school has advised they won’t even look at her if she doesn’t do Maths AND Further Maths. She is doing neither. Apparently an EPQ is also mandatory even though none of this is mentioned on Cambridge website.

All this second guessing, reading between the lines has been really confusing.
I have no issue with universities asking for higher entry criteria for students from indies for obvious reasons but wish they would be more transparent and state this on their ‘Entry requirements’ same way they state contextual offers?

Here's where my DD went. Think it covers pretty much every institution in the country 😂. First year they've done it.

farnborough.ac.uk//App_Files/Upload/Higher%20Education/The%20Sixth%20Form%20College%20Farnborough%20Destination%20Map%202020.pdf

[quote adriah72]@Wacamole

His GCSE's were pre-pandemic, his A levels are this year and therefore will be teacher assessed. His Oxford offer is AAA and he should meet that but who knows this year? [/quote]
I think pre pandemic grades had more value. CAGs have devalued them somewhat so they now have to be ridiculously high . Good luck to your DS!

@Needmoresleep thanks for the tip! DD found the twitter accounts just last week purely by accident and is very excited about it because she can get to actually correspond with some one one on one, questions that aren’t on the university website.

@mumsneedwine great way to show the data; is that generated by UCAS for the school or is it a more widely accessible UCAS tool?

One of the highest graduate employment rates is in Golf Management degrees. Because they were written in conjunction with golf clubs. My husband would have loved to have done that.

@boys3 the college did it I think. Someone was bored during lockdown 😊

I did mine all by myself...can you tell??

@Piggywaspushed 😊 was v professional. I could probably do something funky from UCAS with ours - might have a play tomorrow. Had wine tonight so not touching a computer.

I am very impressed by how far some of those young people will go to uni mum.Ours seem to attached by a piece of elastic to their home town.

@Piggywaspushed they do scatter far and wide. Maybe it's because they can get home from anywhere via London on train/bus or Heathrow ?

Maybe they are just more adventurous? I am about as near London as you if not nearer.

What is noticeable form my school's list is almost complete lack of London. They simply feel they can't afford it.

With you there. London prices out a lot of kids (mine included).

But presumably in Farnbough it is not all deprivation, and that within such a large sixth form there are some from middle class backgrounds. There are some London Universities that offer courses that are as good as, if not better than, Oxbridge. It seems a pity that schools seem fixated on Oxbridge yet are not encouraging good alternatives. Our experience that London is not a lot more expensive, if indeed it is more expensive, than places like Bristol.

@Parker231

I think ultimately there is a hierarchy of universities in this country (rightly or wrongly)

We interview university blind as well and I think it takes a lot of autonomy away from the selection team in that they do not have the full educational background of the applicant (which may be relevant)

We have to shortlist anyone with a 2:1 or 1st for interview and in the interview questions are prescribed to not allow queries to their university. We have interviewees show horn in Cambridge college rowing expertise to demonstrate leadership but with the interview rules technically we 'should' ignore that.

Do you happen to work in the public sector? I know some public sector institutions do this but our profession definitely feel it is an imposition.

Technically we could be rejecting Oxford grads with 1st class degrees (what too 0.5% of ability) quite easily with our system.

I suppose if you are looking at careers with a university blind recruitment system to answer the original post don't worry at all about GCSE a or university choice??

Shoe horn

y dd is at an indie, she'd never make a decent uni, as she hasn't got it in her.
Why should her friends have different entry requirements to state schools.
All kids aren't academic whatever sector they school.
What about H.ed kids, should it be different for them, they go to oxbridge too.

Farnborough has lots of v v poor students attending - v wide catchment with lots of deprivation. And some middle class bits too.
London halls are £10,000+, Bristol £7,000. Rent in London upwards of £150 a week, Bristol £100. Expensive but not out of reach expensive. Schools don't say don't go, kids can do the maths and know they won't have money, even with a job.

mids - I’m aware of the Uni snobbery- I went to LSE, DT’s to Warwick and York and DH came to the Uni on a scholarship from McGill.

I hate the way one Uni thinks they are better than other - they all have strengths and weaknesses.
I don’t work in public sector but in corporate finance for a global consulting firm. Due to the numbers of applicants we look for all A’s at A level and a 2.1 or 1st. By the time I see the applicants they have already been through a day assessment centre. The information I see about them doesn’t tell me details about their schooling or Uni - it’s not relevant.

Typo - DH came to the U.K. not Uni!

Technically we could be rejecting Oxford grads with 1st class degrees (what too 0.5% of ability) quite easily with our system.

Surely if the holder of a First from Oxford does better in the selection process than the others, then you do choose them? Or is the HR department somehow handicapping Oxbridge grads in one of the selection criteria?

@MarchingFrogs

Yes they would be chosen. However the only benefit of the Oxford degree would be to give some sort of advanced preparation for the interview. The interviews are very prescribed and of limited scope. (Leadership/Values type questions). Whether having an Oxbridge degree would make a difference in an interview is debatable.

However ultimately the recruitment is for a clinica science discipline where someone capable of an Oxbridge first would contribute. Hence the ability to look at an application holistically is important.

@Parker231

Your interview strategy seems to university blind but not A level blind. In reality the majority of triple A students would have went to a 'good' university.

Our system is also A level blind in essence as they can't be used as a formal selection citerion . I think it is motivated by a desire to increase diversity and remove bias towards any university. It is an open question whether this is a good thing.

The te to snobbery is a little bit loaded. For instance an Oxford 1st holder may state that their degree is of greater rigour than a one from the University of Sun derland. Is this snobbery or a simply a statement of degree worth?

I guess you could accuse people of A level snobbery of they chose A candidat as over those who achieved a B.

Maybe a sense of looking down at students at other universities would come under the definition of snobbery though .

Sorry few typos....

I guess you could accuse people of A level snobbery of they chose A candidat as over those who achieved a B.
Of course Parker123’s company can select how they please as they are not in the public sector. However they are missing out on all those stellar candidates who have overcome adversity to get a B at A level. Companies like this indulge in virtue signalling by their ‘university blind’ application process but as said by mids2019 are very much biasing their selection to top tier universities and MC demographic by their A level filter

We took four in our graduate programme last year - one from Oxford, one Portsmouth, one East Anglia and one Nottingham. The idea for us of blind is for those doing the final interview stage (I am one of four doing it for our team) to select the best candidate regardless of where they did their degree and A levels. The process has changed over the years (too many times) but seems to be working at the moment . Seems so much harder for graduates now. I went through a similar process many years ago but didn’t seem as stressful. Perhaps as now many more are now getting degrees and the competition is so strong.

@Parker231

Is there a danger of using raw A levels as a filter that you don't consider those from maybe Durham and Bristol who have contextualized offers to enter uni (due to disadvantage) but have did well in their degrees.

As a previous poster has said the schools most likely to produce pupils with high end A levels are private/grammar schools or those with predominantly middle class children.

Companies will not contextualize A levels in school I presume (no pressure from governments and resource intensive) so it could be argued that this in opposition to the general trend of improving social mobility. Social mobility is a government aim not a company one.

It is interesting to see the range of universities that were ultimately selected from. I am sure the recruitment strategy works for you but that implies graduates of equally excellent calibre......

by school not in school