Medicine 2021 - Part 4

[MaddieElla]

Fingers crossed for those final offers coming in!

Hope no one minds me starting the new thread...

@MaddieElla all I know about the May assessments is that DD has two in the week commencing 3rd and one in the week commencing 10th. Plus as soon as she goes back from Easter hols she has mocks again as well.

She’s been given a list of which assessments from the past will be included in the overall decision but not how they will be weighted.

It’s all quite confusing - has DD’s school said they will give the papers to students or do they mean that the papers will be released universally for all to see?

The government said papers would be released to all students in advance - because schools aren't going to do the exams on the same day, students sitting then later would be at an advantage.
My DC's school responded by saying that wouldn't use those papers as they would be essentially meaningless.
I also think that most schools won't be deliberately outrageous about grades but I agree that most will push people over grade boundaries so there will still be inflation.

No assumptions being made here on grades. DS's school is setting multiple tough exams and a clear message that the grades will be based predominantly on them. Mitigates the risk of a single off day but that seems to be about it.

It’s all quite confusing isn’t it? DD’s college described the process as gathering a basket of evidence for each student and they do say that in the final assessments in May they will be drawing on the question materials provided by the awarding bodies. DD has not yet been told that these question materials will be in the public domain so was unaware. I do see articles though suggesting this would be the case after Easter. DD’s college say more weight will be given to work done recently and under exam conditions.

I am not sure where I read it, but I did see it suggested that using the exam board material does mean it could perhaps be safer if the school is looked at further - as the tests the students sat couldn’t be brought into question if they were set by the exam boards. Honestly can’t remember where I saw that though and don’t know if it’s just a bit of speculation.

It all seems bizarre really as these materials are there to be used, but the mark required for an A might vary from one school to the next this year - or will there be grade boundaries given from the exam board too? Even that seems tricky as not all schools will use all of the questions!

DD seems content knowing she has her assessments and needs to work her socks off to do her very best and see what happens. She knows when her assessments are, and what to cover (pretty much everything - she was lucky and on line classes were excellent) and I guess everything else is outside of our control so we will just have to go with it.

Let’s all hope for the best for our DC. The autumn resits sound like they could potentially be quite a lot more rigorous- perhaps even the actual exam papers that had been written, which seems odd to me if the assumption is that many students didn’t get to finish the full course syllabus. Although I could be wrong as I’ve only skimmed over an article this morning.

Yes, released universally is how I understand it. But then the school can decide whether to use them.

DD has also just been peddling on and revising for everything. Her mocks from a couple of weeks ago, and assessments 4 weeks from now will form her grade. As far as I know nothing else will be taken into consideration.

Giving test papers in advance just seems so pointless. Knowledge still needs to be assessed whether you had a full online experience or you were in and out of school. Knowledge also needs to be there to cope with the degree content.

It's a bit of a mess at present, and the schools don't know the answers either. I think they were given more guidance/information at the end of term, but obviously then everyone has gone off for 2 weeks. Not a very restful Easter break for teachers I would imagine.

@MaddieElla it seems different schools are taking very different approaches. I have friends with DC in all different types of school all over the country and there seems to be huge variation in how schools are approaching it. I'm not saying there's intentional malpractice but even with the best intentions of fairness there seems to be a lot open to interpretation and where's the levelling of the playing field in that. I know it would have been terribly unfair to go ahead with A levels for DC who, through no fault of their own, have missed lots of school time and there is probably no perfect answer but it does all make me nervous.

I think in normal times there is always the risk you will have a bad day but it is your own bad day. It's the subjectivity of this situation that makes me feel uncomfortable for all the DC. Technically DS has room to slip a bit and still meet his required grades but he is working his socks off and not taking any chances.

It does seem really odd to publish the exam board papers. I read that it’s being justified because students would all sit them at different times and therefore they would end up being leaked. Also that while students can see them they won’t know which questions will be used.

I can imagine for students where they have not covered the full syllabus it could be quite stressful having access in advance and trying to know what they should know how to do and which questions to just ignore. It makes you wonder a bit why the exam board papers are even necessary when you take it all into account.

Does anyone know when these papers/questions/resources (not sure what to call them really!) will be available? All I can see is “after Easter”.

@Monkey2001 I agree with you. I do think it likely that they will set the A or A* level (and presumably all the way down) on the assumption that borderline candidates would have come through on the day, so candidates are less likely to miss grades. But what has been suggested on here is that schools will do this in a way that distinguishes between those who have received offers and those that haven't, and be more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to those with offers. And that I find difficult to believe - ie that with two candidates getting A grades 75% of the time and B grades 25% of the time, the one with a prestigious university offer will get the A, and the second one will get the B. I can't see how they will not give both of them an A. Even if the figures were A grade 50%, B grade 50%, I would have thought they would give an A grade, and maybe even A grade 40% and B grade 60%, as they "might" have come through on the day, but to distnguish based on which student holds offers I just can't see.

If it's any reassurance most school staff don't have access to Uni offers and I haven't got a clue what my own students need. Ours are being done using 4 sets of assessments (we are using the exam board ones as they can be sort of standardised) and grades will be based on those alone. No ranking this year, so if everyone gets 90% then they all get an A star. I just need the evidence to prove the grades I give, and this has been made v clear to students. All do well, all get good grades. All don't bother to revise, you all fail (as some had the idea they just needed to do better than others - hang over from last years stupid ranking).
But every school has been left to devise their own system. Blame DofE as they just washed their hands and told us to get on with it. There will be massive grade inflation I'm sure as some schools will give students more 'support' than others.
I'd say just tell your kids to try their hardest - that's the only thing that is in their power at the moment. It should all work out fairly for most. 🤞🤞

@mumsneedwine I don't understand how it will work out fairly for most if "some schools will give students more 'support' than others"? Also, if massive grade inflation does happen then surely that devalues the A stars that excellent students would have achieved had they been able to sit their exams.

I know there's the worry of devaluing the A but I'm so pleased to hear you won't be ranking which was one of my biggest worries. Hopefully that will be the same with all schools.

I suppose we want our kids to be assessed on what they produce and not then be compared to previous years/rest of their cohort.

I'm not thinking about our situation, frankly as long as DS gets the grades for his place, I'm really not concerned about whether the As have stars after them. But for DC reapplying who are excellent academically, isn't it unfair if they would have got their A stars if they'd sat their A levels and others are applying with the same grades who wouldn't have.

@opoponax There will probably be more top grades and it's never going to be 'fair' when everyone has been left to do their own thing. What I meant was that your own children should get a grade that's fair for them, get them into their Uni of choice and they can then forget this whole sorry mess. Yes it sort of devalues an A star this year but in the long term it won't matter. My DD was a CAG child and went though all that last year. Now it's so unimportant to her as she has moved on. She's really hoping Uni is back to normal next year and not all on line (some Unis talking about doing this !).

@opoponax it's v unfair. There is nothing fair about any of this. I hate it.

Agree the absence of ranking is really good news and thanks for clarifying that @mumsneedwine

Aw thanks for being so open @mumsneedwine. We all love the support you give us on this thread. It's true, if you meet the grade requirements for your offer, that's a great outcome for this crazy year when so much could have gone wrong. I hate it all too though, I just want a good outcome for all of our DC who have worked so hard.

My understanding about the exam materials made available by the board's is that there will be a lot of content and students are unlikely to be able to do it all before they sit the papers their school selects. Could be wrong as I have not been following closely.

I think they had to make them publicly available so that the ones with friends sitting then earlier did not have an advantage. I have seen people on The Student Room asking for 2019 papers and mark schemes because they are being used for assessments, cheating is too easy.

It's going to be a very strange year for results. Again. I think all we can hope for is some modicum of fairness and I do think the majority of my colleagues across the country will do their best. Once they have their results and their places confirmed tell them to park the A levels and never worry about them again. They count for nought from now on in medicine.
@opoponax 😊 thank you. I've been where you all are as a mummy & it's tough enough in a normal year. This one has been horrible for them all.
Motivational quote for the day. Worry about the things you can control and leave the rest alone.
Don't waste energy trying to work out how your grade will be calculated, just make it impossible for your teachers not to give you that A (star).

My DD told me that teachers were asking students what grades they need for Uni as she thinks they will be trying to get them what they need. What irked was that those students who need 3 x A's may not get the A* they are on track for as the school can't be seen to give out too many. I know that once they are at Uni it's not going to matter but really doesn't seem fair. This is only my DD's view from what everyone is saying - not the teachers so I am hoping it's not actually 100% correct. I do believe the school will try and get as many into Uni as possible though.

Just to be clear, when I say that DS knows his ranking, that is not an "official" ranking, just the class is small enough and they talk enough that he knows exactly how he ranks in every class. DS's school too are using the exam board ones as their third set of exams, as are DS's old school (state comprehensive), and a friend's private school. So two internally set and one from the exam boards. If somebody who has an offer from Oxbridge but scored lower than him in these exams were to end up with a higher grade, I think most of the class would know. Last year grades were calculated on the basis of tests and exams that nobody when they sat them knew would be used for their final grades. This year, everybody knows. They know these three sets of exams were to be used before they sat/will sit them, just like A levels. It is just a more grueling drawn out process than usual, with more discretion to the teachers as to what is actually on the syllabus (although in DS's case, most of it, and the one small bit of biology that is not in the exams is one of the most relevant to medicine. So the teacher said that they should cover it by having the students research it and present it to each other - but most of the class didn't bother, so DS ended up giving a whole class, all 50 minutes - because he felt he needed to cover all the topic in order to give over the portion that he was supposed to "teach" properly. We did get a lot of praise about that from the teacher at parents' evening, but I don't believe even something like that is going to count in terms of his grades. It is all down to these three sets of exams).

Teacher told DS that if he decided not to do medicine, he had a serious future as a biology teacher, said he was really good.

re the TAG's, I suppose I'm coming at this fairly fresh from a conversation with a friend who teaches several 6th form groups (non STEM subject) although not locally to us.

She said plenty of students have made her aware of the grade requirements, particularly the Oxbridge and Durham offer holders. She felt it was placing an unwelcome burden of anticipation/expectation on her, especially with the subjective nature of assessment of some A level material . Her HoD cascaded down to them the HT's requirement that ALL factors and any IMPLICATIONS must be considered before grades are finalised and even pupils working at A Level all year and on target for A must not be advised of this at parent's evening as it created an expectation that this would be the grade they were ultimately awarded (although that would appear be the situation across all schools and is surely very sound advice anyway !)

@SATSmadness oh I've had students (& parents) make me very aware of the grades they need, and would like. Everything is sent to HT who sends a v sharp email back. I won't be drawn into any conversations about results.
We can't even tell students they are doing well - can't give any indication as to grades at all. It's quite difficult as I'm usually so positive !! But it makes it fair and hopefully doesn't raise expectations or give false hope.

Given the constant assessments run and marks disclosed between friends/ crossover outliers then disclosing to other groups etc, word gets round, I suspect they all have a good idea of their "ranking", DD does for sure but as they've all found it counts for nothing at a Uni interview.

Even in reception class dc worked out that the tables were populated by deemed ability... Didn't help to add easily decodable names to the tables. Random colours assigned would have been more subtle.