Another path to greatness - part III

[chopc]

Here is the new thread

For Cambridge you can submit an “extra” one.

I’ve just asked dd’s friend, who has just received a Durham offer for a popular subject, if she submitted another ps. She didn’t. So Durham’s admissions criteria still remain a mystery!

I fully agree @SATSmadness . Don't understand a system that gives Uni offers based on predicted grades

I could be wrong here, but I thought the alternative PS option for D was mainly for those applying for slightly different courses (eg if you were applying for HSPS at C, you might have some politics in the PS, but if it was straight Anthropology at D, you could adapt the PS more to that). Also, I thought it was because D recognise that many of their applicants would also be applying to Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial, etc. Whereas mentioning you are captain of the rugby team would not help your application to any of these institutions (I’m fairly sure LSE stated the PS should be 100% academic because I remember DS being adamant about this); Durham prefer a more “rounded” PS and would want to hear this kind of thing, as would most other unis. Maybe at Durham, it helps them out a bit with college allocations, eg if you mention you’re a superstar athlete you might be more likely to end up in a more sport-focused college? DS did mention his singing and they allocated him to St John’s (not all colleges have choirs), which may or may not be coincidental. I couldn’t say. I guess it gives them something to go on when allocating, alongside the college choices form? When you’ve got thousands of kids to allocate, probably any extra info helps.

Totally agree @SATSmadness

The university year could be moved to a January start date allowing students to focus on nothing but their public exams in year 13.

quest1on when the facility for a substitute personal statement was introduced a few years ago its main purpose was unashamedly to identify Oxbridge applicants, although it did provide a genuinely useful function for those applying for different courses at other universities. The idea of putting in an alternative statement which wasn't so strongly academic was totally at odds with the statements on departmental websites at the time which asked for statements with a purely academic focus, and also wholly at odds with the computer generated random selections for college places. Durham absolutely has to factor in the question of likely Oxbridge offerees because of the blanket applying thrown its way. Shortly before introducing the substitute statement facility it sent letters out to those insuring with it to ask why they had chosen to insure only, rather than firm, and one of the answers that students could tick was 'Holding an Oxbridge Offer' or words to that effect. This is a huge issue for Durham. But now they've rowed back on the substitute statement thing. My own DC never put one in because the purpose was so blatant, and they didn't want to be positively identified as Oxbridge applicants, even if it was relatively likely that they were. 85% academic/ 15% extra curricular seemed to do the trick for all universities - much simpler.

I was interested to see the comments about applying post exam results as a recent HEPI report concluded that it could be more disadvantageous.

www.hepi.ac.uk/2021/03/18/new-hepi-report-demonstrates-that-moving-away-from-the-use-of-predicted-grades-in-university-admissions-could-harm-rather-than-benefit-fair-admissions/

I also understand that there is a move to phase out SATS and the ACT in the US www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-01-12/uc-should-permanently-eliminate-sat-and-all-standardized-tests-for-admissions-experts-say

There is a new report out on UCAS today which states that too many pupils are not given enough guidance with regard to the exam pathways they should be taking so as not to exclude themselves from certain routes. Links and additional data below if anyone fancies a read.

www.ucas.com/file/435551/download?token=VUdIDVFh

www.ucas.com/file/435556/download?token=YeVVe-Ru

www.ucas.com/file/435601/download?token=2hHOLeFw

Happy reading!

@SATSmadness May I ask how small is the cohort if there were only 7 applications to Durham and two were post grade applicants out of interest? That is remarkably few unless it is a small sixth form.

goodbye - yes, I can see that. To be honest, even if DS hadn’t applied to C, his PS would still have not included any extra curricular because he was clear at the time that he wrote it predominantly for LSE. This was because there are other factors to the decision process at C (interviews, submission of written work) whereas at LSE the PS is all they have, so massively important and you kind of have to tailor it to them to have a even a remote chance.

I suspect the 2 post qual applicants you refer to holding Durham offers may have applied to Oxbridge on this round too.

Re the US college system, you have to pay an application fee of around $75-$85 so about £55-£60 per application. This benefits those with deep pockets who can afford to drop hundreds of dollars on applying to as many as they can afford.

I posted on the previous thread, my DD was redirected from Oxford. It wasn't a surprise to be honest so it didn't really have an impact on her. She found the application process useful I think and it pushed her to get her PS finished. She has an offer at Exeter which she is very happy about, as long as she gets the grades.....

I know at her school (acadmic indie girls school) there have been a number of 'shocks' regarding offers etc, a number are still waiting.

I wanted to add that it seems to me that the exam situation and university offer process does not seem at all transparent or consistent and it is hard to understand how universities are differentiating between students. We seem to have moved to a place (or maybe we were already there) where schools and students don't have clue about what they need to do/can do to get the course/place they want. With so many students getting the new 'high' standard of a '9' it already seems to have lost it's value, this isn't to disrespect the hard work and ability of students. The top courses and unis all seem to want a combintation of A* or A however even if you get those you might not get a place at a decent uni. Seems so strange.

I agree that the 9 was supposed to be for absolutely exceptional achievement. Possibly the difficulty is that in, say, Maths you could genuinely get masses of 9s because questions are either right or wrong, so 100% perfectly achievable. English, however, full marks is not so certain (add in Music, Art etc etc) so it would lead to an imbalance in results.

So then you are back to percentages getting each grade, which leads to a slew of 9s.

A Levels were more, in a way, accurate, but last year put paid to that.

To put it more clearly, it wouldn’t sit right if thousands in the country got a 9 for Maths, but only two people achieved a 9 for French, if the same 100% standard for a 9 was required.

Let us hope when they get in somewhere decent as most of those who try for Oxbridge manage part of the 3 years will be wonderful, free of restrictions, parties, boy and girl friends, risk taking galore (if they want that) and good face to face academic work

Absolutely Xenia, really hope so.

Also, hear hear Vargas 😁

@SeasonFinale

It's the sixth form of a state comp with approx 270 students in Y13.

The school is non selective and sixth form offers alternative study courses in addition to A Levels so the proportion of potential Durham calibre candidates is reduced in comparison to say the sixth form of a more selective secondary school/independent or grammar school.

Location wise it is decidedly "North of Watford Gap" which possibly lessens the appeal of heading off to a Uni such as Durham, Exeter, Bath etc, where 30-40% of students may be from a private school backgrounds, for many pupils/their parents.

The charts of A Level grades achieved by the school's Y13s in previous years show that pupils taking non STEM A Level subjects do not achieve as highly as pupils do in STEM subjects. This might also account for a lower proportion likely to achieve the grades usually required by Durham as a lot of the STEM high achievers seem to want a career in medicine which rules Durham out.

To many pupils, heading off to Uni is exciting but daunting in many ways. Choosing a Uni where most people are coming from potentially similar backgrounds possibly offers some reassurance. On the other hand, a friend's niece had spent her entire school career in very hard to get in to private schools in the home counties and refused to consider Bristol as an option, despite it's good reputation for her chosen course. She said she was dying to get away from that culture (many from her super selective secondary school sixth form headed off to Bristol each year apparently although I'm not sure it features as having a large proportion of privately educated applicants).

I'm glad I discovered this thread as I have been pretty much clueless about the whole process even before the effects of Covid

Dd learned yesterday that she did not get Durham but has a few other offers and from what I can tell seems ok now, has skipped off to meet up with a friend today

Hope all your dc will soon be able to look forward to the happy days that are meant for them! 🌤

Thank you @Vargas and @quest1on

I'm so sorry for those dc who have been disappointed by their offers.
I think its clear that this year's oxbridge and durham/york/bath applicants are being very negatively affected by deferments and covid.
I hope they all find somewhere right for them.
Do any of you know anything about contextual offers?
Ds has a good offer from Nottingham which was reduced from their stated offer but then reduced again if he firmed them.
Why would a University do that?
Its a history joint honours course and he attends a state 6th form.
I'm a bit baffled (but pleased!)
I'll be so glad when this is over!

JentheFredo it's to encourage them to make it their firm choice. DD had the opportunity of a firm place at Durham last year with ABB, but AAA if she put it down as insurance. Their standard offer was A*AA. Durham made if clear that they wouldn't budge on results day if her grades were slightly different to the offer, so she firmed Oxford and turned down Durham.

Thanks @SATSmadness. That makes sense and obviously differs to.our cohort which has about a 100 fewer but also has more than half apply to D.

Nottingham used to be one of the unis that offered conditional unconditionals which are now very much frowned upon so instead use reduced offer for firms to secure those bums on seats!

Ah, yes.
That makes sense.
I didn't know unconditional offers were still a thing!

@Jenthefredo Ds has one contextual offer which is for Durham. It is because your child meets a specific criteria or a set of criteria from Free School Meals, low achievement school but high achieving child, POLAR (low uptake of students going onto university in that area) a young carer or are in care etc.

Durham's entry requirement for Computer Science is stated as AAA however, Ds's Durham offer is either AAA or AAB (they listed both) and he also has a contextual offer of AAB if he puts them as his firm choice. His UCAS predicted grades were A A A* A and he should achieve that.

I am unsure if this is different for Nottingham. Ds has 3 other offers none of which have been reduced, Warwick is the standard A A A!

onthebench wow, your ds predicted grades are amazing 👏
Hmmmm...
Not sure any of those criteria apply to ds tbh..
Interesting!
I wonder if its a mixture of being course dependant/gcse grades/school postcode?
There seems no rhyme or reason to it this year

@Jenthefredo ours is POLAR postcode due to the wide area it takes in. You can look at this yourself to see how wide the net is.

Re his grades, Dh, Ds1 (18) Ds2 (15) all love maths, they sit together doing UKMT (maths competition) questions. I sit in the corner with a dunce hat on my head. I scraped GCSE maths. Dh did degree level maths.

I filmed Ds1 and 2 whilst we were on holiday in a restaurant waiting for our meal, they were cubing numbers, for fun, in their heads. His A levels are maths, further maths, computer science and physics. Definitely not my DNA.

He is a grafter, works hard and is very disciplined unlike me. He is incredibly passionate about his subjects and genuinely enjoys them. Hence the effort he puts in.

Ds has a friend like that doing the same subjects :) he's scarily clever.
Ds is doing history, politics and geography and is also a grafter. He works very hard. Far harder than I ever did!
Ds finally got confirmation of his final assessments info yesterday so feels a bit better today.